284. Honoring Your Inner Truth in the New Age with Vanessa Naja

This week, I spoke with Vanessa Nana, a human design business coach, about the 2027 shift and how we can utilize it as entrepreneurs and in business.   

In this episode, Vanessa and I talk about:

• Human design
• Bg5
• Being an entrepreneur 
• Allowing the systems to be a tool, not to condition you
• Authenticity 
• Emotions and business 
• Global shift
• 2027 Rave Children
• Variables 
• Following your strategy & authority

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Astrodesign School Waitlist

Where you can find Vanessa:

Instagram

Where you can find Rochelle:

Mastery Monday Newsletter

Substack

YouTube
Instagram

Website

YouTube

Email: info@rochellechristiane.com

Chapters

• 0:00 Welcome And Episode Setup
• 0:49 Meet Vanessa And Her Work
• 3:43 Host’s Updates And Aquarian Age Context
• 5:43 Network Marketing Then And Now
• 9:25 Authenticity, Emotions, And Magnetism
• 15:38 Vanessa’s Path Into Human Design
• 22:44 Using HD Without Boxing Yourself In
• 27:38 Emotional Authority: Mind Vs Feeling
• 33:12 Deciding In Business With An Emotional Wave
• 36:59 2027 Shift And New Business Paradigms
• 43:36 Marketing By Frequency, Not Force
• 48:54 Bridging Old And New Ways Of Working
• 54:42 Variables, Structure, And Flow
• 1:02:15 Relationships, Kids, And Emotional Centers
• 1:09:08 Somatics, Trauma, And Metabolizing Emotion
• 1:17:12 Wisdom Of Undefined Emotion And Boundaries
• 1:23:10 Closing Guidance And How To Connect

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:02

Welcome to the Rochelle Christian Podcast. I'm Rochelle, your host. I'm here to help you come back to your body, take charge of your emotions, and live life on your terms. This podcast is a space for raw, real conversations about what it means to trust yourself, lean into your power, and create a life that feels aligned and alive. We'll explore human design, astrology, and other tools to help you understand your unique energy. More importantly, though, we're gonna talk about what it means to actually live and embody these aspects. So each week I'm gonna share stories, lessons, guidance to help you navigate life's challenges and really own your magic. So if you're ready to step up, take control, and show up as the most authentic version of you, let's begin. Welcome back to another week, another episode on the Rochelle Christian podcast. This week I'm talking to Vanessa Naja, who is a human design business coach and certified BG5 consultant who helps heart-centered entrepreneurs build aligned, sustainable businesses that feel good and make an impact. Vanessa combines human design, emotional intelligence, and practical systems to help entrepreneurs grow with clarity, confidence, and ease. She also partners with BodyGraft.com and is the host of the Pulse on Human Design podcast and a community educator focused on human design and business and leadership. She also hosts her own show, Human Design for Entrepreneurs, and co-hosts BG5 Live with the BG5 Business Institute, bringing human design and business insight to multiple audiences. So Vanessa is so knowledgeable and we talk a lot about entrepreneurship, what it looks like, how we can lean into our human design, but we also talk a lot about emotions. And Vanessa is very familiar with astrology as well and weaves that in in her own practice. And I think that the emotional intelligence piece, I mean, it's hugely important for so many reasons. And if you've been following the show for a while, you know that this used to be the emotional mastery podcast. And then I made a rebrand last year, I believe, around this time actually. And um emotional, emotional intelligence has been a huge path in my life, has been a huge lesson in my life and continues to be. And it's just such a big part of personal evolution and growth and like all the things. So I really love that that is a theme of this podcast as well. And we talk not just about the emotional emotionally defined, but we also talk about emotionally undefined, what that means, what that looks like. We give examples. So it's a really, really incredible conversation. And one thing that we touch on. So I just wrote a post on Substack around the Aquarius season and like the age of Aquarius. So if you don't subscribe, subscribe to the so if you don't subscribe to the Substack, head over and subscribe to that. If you have a paid subscription, you're also getting uh moon circles, weekly transit updates, um, and monthly overviews and we doing a little bit more in depth. I did a whole Aquarius season video in there as well. So the link is down below if you want to join. And Astro Design School, uh, if you want to join the wait list for next, the next round, which will start in Aries season, you can also click down below and sign up for that. But with all that being said, the so Aquarius season, which we're in, is really amplified this year because Pluto's an Aquarius, and this is the age of Aquarius. Again, depending on the train of thought that you hold, there are some like true sidereal astrology. Pluto is actually not in Aquarius yet. And so, but the nodes are, and I just like went down this little little mini rabbit hole. And I know the whole conversation around Western astrology or tropical astrology and sidereal astrology always comes up. I had somebody not long ago send me a link or a a news article where it was like, your your birth, your sun sign is wrong and all this stuff. And it was like clearly just trying to uh devalidify, is that the word I'm looking for? Astrology. But this is like a conversation that's been happening forever. And the way that I see it and the way that I use it is that tropical Western astrology is like the material, the 3D, it's like what we're here to learn, like right now. Whereas sidereal or true sidereal astrology, Vedic astrology is more like the path of the soul, because when I look at them both, I resonate with both of them. And in true sidereal, although I am one of the ones that my sun sign is a Taurus, regardless. So I'm kind of lucky in that way. Lucky. I'm just like I so strongly resonate with being a Taurus. Um, but I could see how if I pulled another uh like true sidereal, that I might be really attached to Taurus. And then if it said I was like Aries, I don't know. But anyway, this is a whole tangent that's irrelevant to the conversation. But the age of Aquarius, the season of Aquarius, all this to say that it really layers on beautifully with this conversation that we have today because Vanessa really talks about what business looks like moving forward in this age of Aquarius, right? Where we're no longer doing this like top-down hierarchical, you know, um structure within businesses, right? We're sort of moving to this more uh individual focused in the sense that we are we are allowing ourselves to be in our zone of genius, be supported by others. We're doing things a little bit differently and it looks a little bit differently. And uh it's really, really beautiful. And if you've been following on social media, um, I recently re-it's a it's an interesting story, but I rejoined a network marketing company that I joined eight years ago. And I'm in such a different place in my life right now. And I have it's literally, you know, I attribute fitness and this network marketing company to my personal growth journey because I don't know that I would have had the exposure at the time that I did um to personal development, to personal growth, all those things had I not joined that network marketing and really started moving my body. So anyway, so it's just like kind of kiss met that it's like come back around. But what I find so beautiful this time around. So the first time I joined this company, um, it was just like hustle, hustle, like grind, like it was just like so like cold call, get your family and you know, signed up. And I was so uncomfortable. First of all, again, I was a different person back then, but I was like, I don't, I don't want to do this, I don't like this. It's not feel it doesn't feel resonant in my system, like it's not for me. And so that was primarily the reason why I left it then. Not because the products were shit. Like I used them for years after I had stopped like selling them. I'm air quoting it. Um, but like, you know, since then I have joined another uh I joined Healy like two or three years ago because I really believed in the product and I'm always of the mind of like if I'm really, really use it, like and I'm gonna talk about it, might as well make a little bit of money off of it, right? And so I joined the community behind Healy and I loved that because it was really astrology-based, it was really supportive, like it was just like a beautiful uh community. And then again, this came back around and I was like, wow, I'm in such a different place in my life. Like I know the products work. I know that now it's like eight years later, the company is still going strong. I know the potential. And having been exposed a little bit more to network marketing, like I do think that the structure of network marketing, when done correctly and when done right, is sort of this new age, like this passive way of supporting ourselves, of resourcing all of you know others together and individually. And what's so beautiful about the team that I'm on currently is it's so resonant with the age of Aquarius. It's so beautifully put together at the back end and things that are coming down the pipeline at the end of this month, like I am so excited for because it is literally the Aquarian age. Like things are set up in a way that we are resourcing each other, that we are supporting each other, that we are working together, and also we get to show up in our zone of genius. I don't have to show up and try and be type A and organized and like all the things like that. I can show up in my zone of genius, be creative, make content the way that I love to make content, show up in the way that I show up, like do things the way that I love and be so supported within that structure. So I'm so pumped. I'm so excited that I said yes to this. Um, and it's also teaching me just a lot, I think 2025. So we're still in the year of the snake, technically. That switches February 17th, which is also the first eclipse of the year, which is wild. We're already in the eclipse season. So if you're feeling it, um, yeah, we're in the eclipse season and this one's gonna be pretty intense. But um, I totally lost my. We're in the year of the snake. Oh yeah. So last year there was like just like a lot of shedding, a lot that I've had to move through. If you listen to the uh podcast episode, um, I think it was the one before January. So it must have been the last one of December. It was like a 2025 in review. Just like everything that's left, everything that was like forced to leave, everything I've now like more so come into, uh, I don't know what the word I'm looking for is like closeness with myself, acceptance of myself, awareness of myself. Like I've I just see myself in a different way. And I just kind of care less about the things that I used to care about. And I, you know, I was getting lost down the rabbit hole of um what do they call it, doom scrolling. I was doom scrolling on on TikTok. And I came across, you know, some other people in this network marketing company, and all of the hate comments like had me like rattled in my body. I was feeling like, oh my gosh. And I had to remember that A, whatever you're doing online, whatever your, whether it's a personal brand, whether it's for a company, whether you're an affiliate, like Amazon, affiliate marketing, like we're all selling something, right? And so it's just reminding, and we're always gonna have air quote, you know, quote unquote haters. Like there's always gonna be somebody who doesn't like you. And it's like the more people that don't like you, the more people that do like you. Like the person that I was watching had like hundreds of thousands of followers. The video had like two million views, but of course, like all you saw was like the negative ones. But I was like, I don't know, it's just it's so interesting that I feel like the place that I've come in my mind is like this place of uh not quite detachment, but like viewing things in a way I don't know, it's all fake at the end of the day, right? It's all fake, it's all perceived, it's all in our minds. Like I've been telling my kids that, you know, I'm like all truths are but half truths, and they're like, what does that even mean? So I was explaining, like, you know, what I see to be true might be true for me, but it might not be true for you, and that's okay. Both truths can exist at the same time. And there was something that was said recently in my son's school, and I'm debating if I'm gonna um approach the teacher about it, but it was something that I'm not I'm not really gonna get into because um, yeah, anyway, but it was something that felt to me as though it was a teacher imposing a specific viewpoint, religious viewpoint, on my child. Um, and but then I have to remember like all truths are but half truths. I don't actually know the conversation that I'm just getting this relayed from my nine-year-old, right? And he might have taken it differently. And so it's just like it's sort of like telephone, right? Where like somebody says something, and um, but obviously if another comment like this comes up, like I will definitely say something, but it's just interesting the shift of perspective of like, and I think we talk about this in this specific conversation, um, that you know, we're sort of one foot in the old world, the old way of doing things, and one foot in this new way of doing things. And so it's this battle, and I notice it within myself in my own mind of like you know, the way I started this week's Substack article post on the age of Aquarius was um oh my gosh, I totally lost my okay. Authenticity was authenticity. Wow, I don't know why I'm so scattered. I don't know what is going on. I mean, I do know what's going on with the astrology this week, but I'm like, I don't know if there's anything specifically today, but I feel a little bit scattered. So hopefully this introduction makes sense. Um, authenticity. You know, the Spain scale of emotions has shown that authenticity is actually the most magnetic or the the highest vibration uh emotion that we have or sensation feeling, right? That we have. It's like 400 times more magnetic or more powerful than love itself, which I think love and authenticity are really tied together because when you're authentic, I believe you're truly coming from coming from a place of love and you love yourself enough to show up in that space because it's not always easy to be authentic. And so it really takes like certain energy. But authenticity is like required, right? Authenticity is so magnetic and so um, yeah, just like that really high frequency. And I don't even know where I was going with this. I apologize, guys. I'm like scattered. So maybe uh we're just gonna get into the episode because it is so, so good. Vanessa, again, we talk all about um, I was I'm really trying to remember where I was going with that. Because we were talking about being in the old world and the new world, bridging these two when it comes to business and being authentic. Yeah, maybe that was just being authentic to yourself in this age of Aquarius, right? Because it's like if you don't have that, like take the time to really come inside and get to know yourself, right? And this is where emotional intelligence comes in because a lot of times we don't come inside and take that time because it's uncomfortable. But it's like truly, it takes, you know, they say 90 seconds for an emotion to like actually move through you when you actually come inside and sit with it. And the last couple mornings I've been waking up and just feeling this like sensation in my chest, whether it's frustration, irritation, something like that. And I'm just trying to like sit with it and just acknowledge it, right? And like also bear witness to the fact that like I don't have to believe everything that I think. Like my my my thoughts are not true, right? It's like that bad roommate that's in your mind. It's just like, you know, talking and trying to convince you of things. And something that Vanessa said too when we were talking specifically about emotional authority was that she noticed that when her mind tries to convince her of something, she knows that she's detached from her emotional authority. And so we'll we'll just get into the episode because it's really, really good. We talk about the 2027 shift, we talk about you know what it looks like being an entrepreneur or like in business. We talk about emotional authority, we talk about astrology, we talk about so much. So it's such a good episode. I thank you so much for listening and for listening to me ramble um in this introduction for like the last 10 minutes. But um, follow me at rochell.christian, r-o-c-h-e-l-l-e.c-h-r-i-s-t-i-a-n-e. That is on TikTok, on Instagram, stand store slash rochelle.christian, YouTube Rochelle.christian. Like it's all rochelle.christian. And then Vanessa is H-D Vanessa Naja. That's V-A-N-E-S-S-A-N-A-J A. You can find all the links that you need down in the show notes. I thank you so much for listening, and I will catch you in the next one. Welcome to the podcast. Today I have Vanessa Naja. We were just going on, you know, before we started recording all about human design and, you know, the solar plexus, which we're gonna get into here, and I'm so excited. Uh, Vanessa is a business coach, certified BG5 consultant who helps heart-centered entrepreneurs build aligned sustainable businesses and a podcast host for the Pulse on Human Design Podcast with bodygraph.com, which I love and that's how we were connected. Um, I would love to just start sort of setting the foundation of your background and kind of how you even came into like the human design world and you know, a little bit more about what you do, and then we're gonna get into 2027 because I think it's a conversation I've really been wanting to bring to the podcast, but my knowledge of it is is fairly limited. You know, I've done reading and research, but I don't have like the broad um, I just didn't feel like I had enough for myself to bring to the podcast. So I'm so excited to see how that wraps into things and you know, specifically for entrepreneurs and you know, everything as we're entering this new age.

SPEAKER_00: 16:34

Yay! I'm super excited to talk about it and thank you so much for having me on. So, my background with human design, um, my I was raised, I don't like to say religious, I went to Catholic schools. Both sides of my family were Catholic, but not not very religious. Um, you know, we had to go to church because if you go to Catholic school, it's you should be seen in church. However, my mom's side of the family, my great aunt, both of them were very what you would, you know, you might call it woo-woo. And one of my great aunts was a professional astrologer. So I've had my birth chart like literally hand-drawn from as soon as I came out of the womb. And I was very familiar with these types of things, and I got really interested in more uh occult type studies, you know, really in my 20s, and I I dove into all of the different things, you know, I researched all kinds of things. I'm a five-one, so that one line loves to research. And in about five years ago, in this very uh synchronistic way, human design came to me. And I uh an acquaintance of mine, who wasn't somebody I knew very well, had asked me for like a last-minute ride to the airport, and I just happened to be available for it and we're driving, and she asked me if I'd heard of human design. I was like, no, tell me more about it. And she starts to tell me about it, and I was like, How have I never heard of this before? Like, these are all things that I love. I love astrology, I love the i ching. I've studied the i ching, I love the chakra system, like all of these things in human design are things that I'm like super fascinated by. How have I not ever heard of this? So I got like a big fat sequel. Yes, I'm a manifesting generator. And the second I got home from that airport drive, I immediately started to research. Within a week, I was in like a year-long certification program because you know, skipping steps is manifesting. I'm like, I'm just diving in. I'm not gonna, you know, I'll read some stuff, I'll dive in. And then after that program, I just I kept studying with different teachers, um, always immersed in something. Like, I feel like I've not come up for air since I dove in and I might never. So at some point I was like, okay, I really want like a deeper foundation. I mean, I've studied source materials on my own. I've done a lot of self-study. My first certification was, you know, pop human design qualifies as pop human design. And when I was doing my research, and I don't even remember exactly how, but that's when I came across BG5. And I do have a business background. My university degrees in business, I worked in that field until my Saturn return and was like, I can't, I can't do corporate, like I can't live my life like this. But I do have a strong background in it, and I've been an entrepreneur for yeah, 20, 20 years now, since my Saturn return. And I mean, my kind of on return now, right? Smack in the middle of it. And so I, you know, I just kind of got pulled into working with entrepreneurs and businesses. And I do have a lot of business circuitry in my design. I have two strengths for channels that are large business channels and one that is a small business, small group channel. I've always been recognized for those strengths in businesses and you know, looking back after having. Studied BG5. I'm like, oh, this makes a lot of sense. Like, this is definitely how this has shown up for me. And so it was just basically one thing that led to another. And here we are.

SPEAKER_01: 20:10

I love that. Um, yeah, I for me, I I think it was about six, seven years ago, right? And it's kind of the same thing. Somebody was like, Have you heard of human design? And I was like, uh no, like, what is this? Um, and then I like looked into it and I was like, This is so much. There was like no way I had like the bandwidth at the time. And then we got on like another call and they're like, Did you look into it? And I was like, I mean, I saw it was a manifesting generator. Yeah, sure, it resonated, but like whatever. And then yeah, the second time I dove in, I was like, this is it. This is everything. Insane thing. Since then, it's like, I actually took a full year off though, because I felt like so, like the labels of it were beginning to define me. And I was like, you know, I have to find, especially for my emotional uh wave and just like my relationship with my emotions, I was like, I have to find my center outside of all the terminology and outside of all of the, you know, like everything. So I did like separate myself for a little while. But uh yeah, it's been like it opened the door for astrology for me. Like when I was younger, you know, I was always like reading like in Cosmo magazine and stuff like that. But like I didn't, I didn't when I found out there was more than just like your sun sign, I was mind blown. I was like, oh my gosh. And like literally everything in my life like made sense.

SPEAKER_00: 21:17

I think that's what you're a double Leo.

SPEAKER_01: 21:20

Oh my gosh, yes. And moon square Pluto. That's the one that really like for me, you know. And and I was we were talking offline about the 1222 channel. And I wonder for me if that's partly why it's so intense is because also, you know, my emotions and then my moon is also square to Pluto, so it just intensifies this, like yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_00: 21:40

I definitely find like I like combining the two. So I have Saturn conjunct sun and Saturn is my ruling planet. So, you know, learning more about that as well. And I'm I am a little bit of a late bloomer, even though I'm not a sixth line in my profile, you know, and there is all these, yeah, and it's just interesting to combine the two. And I love that you said that you took some time off too, because I do find that people like the thing with human design and BG5, it's a tool and it's it's meant to help us. It's not it's not a box that we're meant to be in. And I also have experienced that where you know, you define yourself by these things that you learn about your human design, and then all of a sudden it's like now you're being conditioned by it, which is totally defeats the point. So I I do recognize that also sometimes in other people when they're letting themselves be a little bit boxed in by it. And I like to remind people that your body graph, like your design is the map, it's not the territory.

SPEAKER_02: 22:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 22:44

And it's very different when you're looking at a map and then when you actually go and visit the place and you're in it, it's a whole different experience. So you know, it's it's not meant to box you in, like use it as a way to help springboard you. But if you're noticing that it's like closing in on you and it's really limiting you, then that's talk to a different human design teacher, take a break, yeah, whatever it is, and really it comes back to following your own inner authority. And sometimes that will, you know, tell you, like, yeah, this is not the right description or something that resonates with me.

SPEAKER_01: 23:19

Yeah. Yeah. I've been on this like deep exploration of just like authenticity and what that even means, right? Because there's so much, there's just so much out there that I feel like, and so much conditioning that I think sometimes it's really hard for us to even understand what that means for us. But it's like in that exploration, it's almost, you know, kind of like you said, human design is like the map, right? It's kind of, it was for me and my experience and what you know, I think with a lot of people, it's kind of like the door, right? That or the key, sorry, that opens the door. But then it's like, but you're the piece, you know, like I still have to find the authenticity within me. Like human design gave me permission to be like, oh, like finding out it was a six-three, I was like, that makes sense. And the amount of shame I've held in my life for starting things, quitting things, not following through, and just being so like, you know, whatever, or just like my chaotic experiences in my 20s, like, oh my gosh, I tried like everything, you know. I mean, like, so having that permission, but then knowing that, yeah, like I just I like that piece is within me, and I have to find that. Like, there's nothing that you're gonna give me that's gonna do it for me. You still have to like kind of yeah decide and do that.

SPEAKER_00: 24:25

Yeah, and I do see people a lot coming, like they want you to give them their answers based on their human design. And the thing is, it's not there are like possibilities here, and there are strengths here, and there are some places where you might be challenged, and those are places that actually really truly help you grow, but nobody can tell you by looking at any of your maps, whether it's human design or astrology or Enneagram or whatever it is, nobody can tell you like this is what you're meant to do, and this is how you have to do it. And it is an experiment and it does give us that permission. I also find it's very healing. And, you know, we talked about this before, us both being emotionally defined and the things that we learned about our emotional experience and our emotional solar plexus and how it operates. It's like so healing and freeing. Um, so it is, it can be a very healing tool, but it's not, it can't tell you exactly what you have to do or what you're meant to do and how you're meant to do it. That is something that you get to explore on your own, and you can use human design as a compass to help guide you.

SPEAKER_01: 25:32

Yeah. Sorry, I don't know if you can hear the trash is coming past right now.

SPEAKER_00: 25:36

So it's so funny. It's it's funny because with Zoom too, I'm like, I can totally hear my air conditioning, but I hope you cannot because it's the noise filter and also my mic settings.

SPEAKER_01: 25:47

But I'm like, I know Zoom is pretty good about it, but my dog's barking in the trash, and I'm like, oh my gosh, of course, it's right. No, I can't hear any of it. Okay, good. Uh no, but I love that you work with emotional intelligence because I mean, you know, I mean, that's been such a lesson of my life. And it's interesting. I'm in like a little um, like little mini business mastermind, and we were talking about it's it's primarily astrology focused, but there's we weave human design in there as well. But we were talking about what you can look for as entrepreneurs, like as far as your, you know, your blueprint, your astrology and your human design and things like that. And something that came up, because we're all, you know, we're all women in there. And it was like, and I think even for men, and but that emotional piece, like your moon and your emotional authority, if you are emotionally defined, but even still your moon in astrology, I feel like is a huge piece to, you know, being in business. And it's so fascinating because I've had conversations with uh like really successful men in business that are completely open in their solar plexus. And it's fascinating to me because I think it gives them this beautiful ability to stay neutral when people are freaking out. And that's what they always like kind of reflect, or they're it just they don't they're not triggered by it. They're not like reactive by it, right? Versus like, you know, sometimes if you have a really active solar plexus and or like really just, you know, without the emotional intelligence piece or how to regulate or how to like be non-reactive, right? It can really be a challenge to like move through in in those in those spaces.

SPEAKER_00: 27:08

Yeah. And the I actually have several men in my life that are colleagues as well, who also have a completely open solar plexus. And I very much see that same thing in them. And I think for those 55% of us that are emotionally defined and cannot make in-the-moment decisions, yeah, that business will often ask of you, like understanding that about yourself and allowing yourself the time to really get emotionally clear on what the correct decision is for you. Because I know before, well, not only before human design, but also like when I first started learning human design and I thought I was following my emotional wave. I was kind of doing it, I wasn't actually feeling it. I made so many decisions that were like in retrospect, you're like, yeah, that was totally your mind, tricking you into thinking you're following your authority, but you were definitely not following your authority. It has cost me a lot of money, especially as a first line that loves to do trainings and certifications. And now it's like, you know, now that I have like a good handle on it, I'm like, yeah, I really thought I wanted this. And it turns out when I gave myself enough time that it was like, nope, not actually for me.

SPEAKER_01: 28:23

Yeah, that's interesting. My so my 1222 is my Venus and Jupiter square. And so you talk about like I have an undefined route as well. So being so impulsive and just like spending money and like doing all the things, it's like moving through that emotional authority. Like now it's I put things in my Amazon cart or like on my safari, I have so many open windows of just like programs I want to take or things I want to do. But I'm like, I have to actually honor. And I like what you said, and I would love to have like just what that looks like for you. You said like doing your emotional authority versus actually feeling it. So, like, what is the difference between that? Like, what did that look like for you? And and how did you realize that you were like doing it versus like actually moving through the experience?

SPEAKER_00: 29:02

Okay, so it's interesting because you brought up your astrology moon. So my moon is in Aquarius. Okay. So I love to overthink my emotions. And it also happens to, so it's in gate 41, and that is one of the gates that points towards one of my bridging gates, gate 30. And so gate 30 is like, you really want to do this, which it's you know, a bridging gate for people that might not know about it, is if in human design you have split definition, it means there's two defined areas of your chart that are not connected. And the gates that connect them, those are actually your biggest areas of conditioning if you have split definition, even bigger than your undefined centers. So for me, my bridging gates, 59, 55, and 30, that 30 is like, you really want this. Like you need a new experience, like you, you know. So I like partially that shadow would creep in. But also with the like thinking, like it's it's the mind, and I have a logically defined ashna coming in and reasoning with me while I'm, you know, in my supposed period of waiting out my wave, giving me all kinds of logical reasons as to why I should or should not do something. And at some point, I'll be like, okay, it's been long enough. I've slept on it for like, you know, three whole nights and I still want it. I'm just gonna sign up for it. And then I'm like, no, the second I notice my mind is trying to talk me into or out of something or using any kind of logic, that isn't not my authority. Like, no. So now when I notice it, I'm like, okay, cool, I see it. Like, that's not my authority, and I just keep waiting. And at some point, and this, it's not like a set time period. It's not like, okay, you see bonnet for one night or you know, three nights if it's a big decision. At some point, and the bigger the decision, the longer it takes, I get to this place of like neutral clarity. Like I'm no longer super over the top, excited about it as like a manifesting generator with gate 16. I'm not terrified. I mean, it might be, you know, if it's a stretch, obviously there might be a little like nervousness and like, oh, this is gonna be a stretch, but I'm not like, you know, totally terrified of it. And it's just this neutral sense of clarity of what the correct decision is for me and knowing that I can handle the consequences. And before it was just my head talking me into thinking I listened to my emotional authority.

SPEAKER_01: 31:38

Yeah. I love that because that's was definitely a struggle that I found as well for a long time because it's like the amount of time that you have to wait sometimes, it's so easy for the mind to then convince you this or convince you that. But the times that I found, yeah, I guess that truth is in this completely neutral, non-attached. Like a lot of times I'll be in meditation and just like no, it's just like a calm, like, there's no, oh my gosh, that's so disappointing, or oh my God, I can't wait. Yeah, there's just this like, huh? Yeah, I guess that's it. You know, and this, like, I mean, the mind can still attach to that and then make it something else, right? But there is that point. Um, because yeah, I I make things mental so fast. And I don't know if it's like, you know, the my emotions connect to my throat, which then also connects to my mind through the 2343, which is my conscious unearth. So it just gets mental like real fast. So, like taking that pause of just like, yeah, like I guess not feeling so. Then also, how does that look for you like in a business setting or in a business scenario where you are and it's not, you know, that neutrality is not coming quickly. How do you like navigate or like communicate that you need more time for things if it takes like two weeks or something?

SPEAKER_00: 32:46

So for me, um, for one, I have learned that if the decision, if there's any pressure on making the decision or the decision cannot wait until I'm clear, then it's no. So that's one. Um, two, luckily enough, being in the field that I'm in, people are very interested in following their own inner authority. And so when you tell them, like, hey, I need to get clarity on this, they're okay with waiting. And I mean, I'll give an example because you know, we're talking about Body Graph, um, who is one of my clients, and we have some big things planned for next year. And I need to come up with a certain plan to present it. And I personally need to get really clear on what that plan is. And it is totally okay. Like they are so accommodating and so wonderful. I'm like, hey, listen, like I can't tell you exactly when I'm gonna present that plan. It's crystallizing slowly but surely. And as soon as I have it, I will let you know. I mean, it'll definitely be before the end of the year, obviously. Like, you know, you in business, you do have to like work with deadlines. Um, but like my clients are always super accommodating about the fact that I, you know, I'm not gonna make in-the-moment decisions. And it's really funny because um the person I work with mainly at Body Graph, Git as the founder, he he has the 3420 57 all conscious. So he is like immediately like he knows in the moment, like what is and isn't correct. Yeah. And then you've got me with an unconscious and split-off solar plexus, yeah, making my decisions. So um he he's very good at accommodating my my time to make decisions. So I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_02: 34:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 34:31

And my other clients are also, you know, obviously it depends on what the situation is and how I'm working with people, but I know if I need to make an immediate decision, then it's probably a no.

SPEAKER_01: 34:43

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it also, you know, goes back to that uh authenticity piece, right? As long as you're being yourself and in showing up in that way. I mean, I guess people can get mad, but it's also it's not on you, right? Like if you're oh yeah. Yeah. So yeah. Well, you so you said your moon is in gate 41, which is uh really is interesting. First of all, I know Pluto's sitting on your moon right now, then because that's and it's been it's been on my earth.

SPEAKER_00: 35:08

My earth is in the 60s. Oh my gosh. So I've been dealing with Pluto opposite sun. Now it's Pluto conjunct moon. I've been dealing with this for years. So my gosh.

SPEAKER_01: 35:16

Yeah, it's coming up to an opposition in my moon. So I'm like embracing for it. But uh the I know like that gate 41 and Pluto are tied into this 2027 shift, right? And so, like, as we're talking about like business and what that looks like, and um, you know, in even emotional intelligence, can you speak to like what that 2027 shift is and like how maybe it might change the landscape of like how we are showing up? I mean, I think that we're seeing it already with people and like the way they come in.

SPEAKER_00: 35:40

I mean, we've been in it, yeah, we've been in it for years, but yeah, it's interesting. So actually, it's when Pluto hits 41 line five, which is exactly where my moon is. Oh my gosh. Yeah, that the shift is taking place. Um meant for this work. Yeah, well, also I have the 3420, which is part of the new era. I have the 3740, which is part of the old era. I also have the nine and the 16, part of the old era, and the 55 and the 59, which are part of the new era, are my bridging gate. So they're all it's all very significant in my design. So, yes, this global shift that we're going through, we're moving from this era of logic, tribalism, like hierarchy, uh, bargains where you know, you do something for me, I'll do something for you. You know, people went to work just to make money, to pay the bills, not because work was something that was satisfying and meaningful, and something that really fulfilled their purpose. And uh big institutions, you know, hierarchy, you have a boss, your boss has a boss, your boss's boss has a boss, and so on and so forth. The whole point of all of it was to make as much money as possible. It doesn't matter who who gets screwed over in the process, as long as you make profit for the shareholders. And we are moving away from that into the era of the individual. And in the era of the individual, there is still a really big part of community and connecting with others, but in creative ways, in ways where we are creating new things together that are supportive and collaborative, and we all get to be our true individuated, unique, authentic selves. And we get to do like live out our purpose, really. And you're seeing this a lot. And I think COVID was such a big part of this when people are now moving more away from institutions. Because I think once people, you know, were required to not go into work for a long time, or a lot of people lost their jobs, they realized, like, I'm not going back to this, like, this is not for me. A lot of people started their own businesses, um, you know, or joined smaller organizations, all of that stuff. And we're seeing the like a lot of the big institutions are crumbling. We've been seeing this for years now with like financial institutions going under. We're seeing this with major governments. Um, we are really moving away from these massive conglomerates where everything is super hierarchical and uh really just driven by profit and greed, into people moving into smaller units, um, really desiring to do work that is meaningful for them, that is really fulfilling their purpose, and no longer being willing to just be a cog in a wheel. And one of the things, too, um, that is really happening with this shift, which is actually really exciting, is that uh connecting with others and like our electromagnetic frequency, which is really what our aura is, like really connecting with the right people, collaborating with the right people is such a big part of it. And frequency in general and the things that worked in the past, like you know, these bro marketing techniques where, you know, you have this sales script and you're gonna convince this person, and you already have all kinds of answers for any of their objections, and your whole goal is to get them to buy, not because you want to help them or because you're really gonna make a difference in your life with whatever in their life with whatever it is that you're selling, but just because you need to make a profit and you need to get that sale. And that stuff, it's already not working very well anymore. And it's like our frequencies really shifting to this emotional intelligence where we are designed to connect with the right frequencies. And so when it comes to marketing and selling, like those things that if it's like it's just about getting money, it's about manipulating people, um, all of these things are no longer working. Now it's really more about collaboration, like expressing your unique, authentic self and connecting with others in that way. And yeah, I mean, one more thing I want to mention about that is you know, when it comes to marketing, and I think this is so important for people to. Who understand when you're marketing your business, you want to do it in a way that's really in alignment with who you are. Because some of these things like if posting on Instagram three times a day is something that really excites you, that you love to do and you really have something to share and you love Instagram, it's gonna work for you. If you do not really like Instagram and some coach told you you have to post on Instagram at least this many times a day, every single day, and you're doing it because somebody told you to do it and it is not in alignment, it's not gonna work. Like no matter how many times you post, it's not gonna work.

SPEAKER_02: 40:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 40:40

So you really want to market and find what works for you and move with that and just let go of the rest. It doesn't matter what everybody else is saying, you should do. It's actually what's correct for you. And this is where if you go back to strategy and authority and letting your own inner authority guide what the correct marketing is for you.

SPEAKER_01: 40:59

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I love you talk about like frequency because I do feel like um when when you're approached or you see things online now, or yeah, in marketing or anything, right? Like it's so obvious now, it feels like when something's not aligned. Like you can just feel when somebody's doing it for the money or for, you know, because that's what you're supposed to do. And it's interesting how many people, I mean, or whether or not they're consciously aware of it. I think you feel it now, you know, in a way that maybe we didn't before. And um, yeah, I love the whole collaboration piece because I I think, yeah, that what is my purpose is always like a huge question that people have, you know, and I think that we tied it so much to like, well, I get a job and I provide for my family and just these very like traditional structures of like how things look. And now it's like there's so many, yeah, people are just like breaking away from that, you know. And I was one of the ones I was in, you know, corporate America in 2020, and my company went under, and I was like, Well, what am I gonna do now? You know, and you know, obviously, not obviously, but human design and my podcast and things like that were things that were kind of percolating in the background. And then 2020, when it freed up all the space, I was like, oh my gosh. And I have never been so lit up by something, you know, and so, you know, obviously there's there's certain, you know, I have another job and things like that. So I'm still trying to like break away and find my own flow in that. But um, yeah, it is a beautiful process and it's very different. I think, yeah, a lot of people, it's when you go out now and talk about because for a long time I really hesitated in calling myself an astrologer because I was like, What are they gonna think? It's so woo, it's so whatever. And now when people were like, What do you do? I'm like, Oh, I have a podcast and I'm an astrologer. And people are like, Oh, that's cool. You know, like it's so much more acceptable now than I think, you know, even like 10 years ago, we're like, What?

SPEAKER_00: 42:40

What do you do? Yeah, I think, you know, we've been moving towards this change of eras, and people really are waking up more. And, you know, it's called the solar plexus mutation. And the solar plexus center in human design is both a motor, which means it is a center that like moves energy and drives you, and it's also an awareness center, which is how we take awareness in. And in this mutation, it is moving to becoming just an awareness center and no longer a motor. Of course, for all of those that were born before 2027, it's going to continue to be a motor, but our emotional awareness and it's also spiritual awareness, like that frequency is really coming online. And we've been seeing it for quite a few years now, where it is becoming more mainstream, like astrology, human design, all of these different tools that in the past people would be like, or you know, they're in the closet about. I mean, I was that way too. I wouldn't, I wasn't running around being like, hey, I do human design. I just told it to the people that I'd be like, they're they might be open to it. And now I just, you know, tell everybody. But we like that awareness, that emotional and spiritual awareness is really waking up for everybody. And that's also why people can tell now when like something is forced or pressured or isn't aligned or is literally just out to get your money. And then when something is actually truly aligned for you, and the frequency of the person is the correct frequency for you.

SPEAKER_01: 44:11

What does that look like for people, you know, or children who are born 2027 and beyond, where the solar plexus is no longer a motor? Because for me, in my emotional experience, I think that was one of the things that was just like this huge aha moment where it's like, no, like, yes, we have to move this and like it's asking to be moved, right? In so many ways, like the emotional experience. So, yeah, kids that are born without that piece to it, it's this isn't it.

SPEAKER_00: 44:35

Do you want to it against really esoteric? Like, yeah, I love it.

SPEAKER_01: 44:38

I love it.

SPEAKER_00: 44:39

Okay, okay. So, not necessarily everybody that is gonna be born post-2027 is going to be what Raw called a rave. Um, it's gonna be like the parents have to have some very specific configurations in their design and also in their variables in order to be able to produce a rave. So not everybody is gonna immediately be a rave. But um, you know what they say with with the raves, when uh they're gonna be uh they're gonna be working in pentas, which are small groups of three to five. And that's like and I I'm not an expert in this. I'm studying with somebody who's absolutely an expert in this. So forgive me if I mess it up, but it's it's really this um like the way they work together. They're gonna be able to communicate um like telepathically or emotionally, like through their emotional awareness, like they'll be able to communicate with each other in that way. And nobody really knows what it's actually gonna look like. You know, you can read a lot of different people's, including Ra's, like interpretations of what it's gonna look like, and a lot of other people that have written about it, but we're like, we're not really gonna know. And it might take a while too. It's not, you know, we're most of most of us that are alive and adults now. By the time, and it's gonna take a while for the whole mutation to take into effect. Probably by the time that takes into effect, we might not be around anymore. So yeah, as far as that is concerned, we don't know exactly what it's gonna look like. Um, but when it comes to like business and stuff like that, we've already seen the shift and what that looks like.

SPEAKER_01: 46:21

Yeah. I feel like in 2027 there's gonna be this like random boom of like people having babies, especially people in this world that are like, because I, you know, I'll be 41 by that point. And even part of me is like, huh. Like, shouldn't I? Should I have a 2027 baby? I don't know. Yeah. But but um, you know, it's interesting. I mean, even the the teleph telepathy piece, like my son is nine, and I know, you know, uh through conversations with teachers, like over the years, they've always there's this theme of like these kids are different, and not saying that they're rave kids, but I just think the kids coming in are are like you said, it's this, it's the it's this shift that's coming. It's not like a 2027, boom, everything's done, right? But it's like, you know, the emotional intelligence and just like self-awareness. And my son, I tell everybody this, I'm like, I know that there's like a mother-son bond, but like my son, I reads my mind all the time. Like the psychic abilities of him, like it's wild. There's so many times that he'll say something I'm thinking, or like vice versa, or just like he knows, or like one time I was walking to my car and he called me right then and he was like, you know, like just he knew. And it's like you can't explain that stuff. And it's so easy to just be like, oh, you're being ridiculous, or oh, like whatever. But I'm like, I always like, you know, with him, I'll tell him that stuff. And I'm just like, just trust yourself because it's just I don't know, it's it's that's kind of like a tangent side note, but I think it's beautiful and to and knowing that, you know, we'll have more of that coming, whether or not it's you know, every child being born. And that's that's good to know too. Maybe people listen and like learn what the things are they might not have in 2027, like great baby, but but yeah, it's it's so fascinating. And um, yeah, I know, you know, not to get like too like off track because I know I want to keep it like business, you know, entrepreneurial focused, because I think that's fascinating too. But I know that there was a piece uh where you know Rod did talk about like aut autism and how that's you know, children who have the mutation but are just not ready for it yet.

SPEAKER_00: 48:22

Um I understand that correctly, is was the conversation around it or I I haven't not like dove very deep into that. I have also like heard about like the autism thing as well, but I can't reliably answer that.

SPEAKER_01: 48:35

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean I've if you you've heard of the telepathy tapes. No, the podcast. There's a podcast called the telepathy tapes, and I just it's fascinating because she's talking about you know, children with um non-verbal autism and how they literally are telepathic. They are speaking to each other, they're going to this place on the hill in their mind and they're communicating. And there's just like so many like really beautiful things, you know, with that. And I, as I was listening to it, I I kept thinking about you know, that kind of prophecy with Ra where it's like, you know, he's kind of alluded to this like over the you know the years of this sort of happening and the fact that it's kind of being proven a little bit with these children who can't speak, right? But they're really intelligent. And they like one of them was able to read glyphs from Egypt that like she's never been to Egypt. She's just you know been in our home. So it's just like really fascinating things like that.

SPEAKER_00: 49:21

Can that came very, you know, very esoteric and woo, but yeah, that that that is fascinating, and that is definitely very much like my understanding of what that would look like. Yeah, I'll have to check that out. That sounds really interesting.

SPEAKER_01: 49:34

Yeah, it is really good. It's kind of blown up, it's on season two now, but uh, but season one was really, really good. Cool. Um, so okay, so going back to um to like the business piece of it and like collaboration, which I have, which again I love, and I know we're kind of like seeing that more and more with people um in like the entrepreneur space and working together. And I'm I'm even part of a membership where we're figuring out because it's such like people are opening up to it more, but it is also such a new concept at the same time, right? Like we're more receptive to it, but then it's sort of like when we communicate it or we talk about it, it's kind of like, you know, because I think we're in this space where we're kind of having to like merge like the old world way of doing business with this new world way of doing business. And it's sort of this like dance we're trying to figure out, right? So, you know, the piece of like being yourself and being authentic and you know, and all that being like magnetic and the right people are gonna find find you. How do we like kind of lean into that, like in this world where I yeah, there is just this kind of old world way of doing things that is very conditioned into us, but yet we're wanting to move into this new, like we feel the resonance of it and we feel the pull of it, but we're just kind of like in between these two spaces.

SPEAKER_00: 50:46

That is such a good question. And yeah, I mean, it's so timely. That's a thing, like with human design, um also with astrology, like one really getting to study yourself and understand yourself better and noticing like how the things you learn about yourself through these systems have actually shown up in your lived experience. And then uh experimenting around with strategy and authority and doing, I mean, the thing with strategy and authority and these experiments, and like you know this too, you're three or six three, like it's not easy, like it's really easy to say, oh, just follow your strategy and authority. But actually, like doing it, it's not gonna be rainbows and butterflies and easy and fun all the time. You're gonna be asked to do scary things, things that stretch you, your mind will try to talk you out of these things. Um but really like moving in that direction of like actually trusting your inner authority is a really big piece of that. And knowing what it feels like in your body, because again, like we are so conditioned to follow logic and follow our mind and make pros and cons lists about like what you're gonna do and who you're gonna collaborate with, and if this makes sense or this doesn't make sense, like we're so conditioned to do that. If you can start to recognize when you're doing that and then drop back into your body, do some body-based practices and whatever that might look like for you. This could be meditation, um, it could be breath work, it could be EFT tapping, movement dance, like what taking walks in nature, whatever it is for you, where you get to regularly connect with your body and really learn to tap into your own inner authority, and then uh give yourself permission to follow it. And that does require courage sometimes in seeing what happens. Because it's not necessarily gonna be like this planned thing, like I'm I'm gonna collaborate with this person now and we're gonna create this big thing. Like, you might not even know what you're gonna create in me, and there's like so many different aspects of design that like go into this. Like, obviously, it's gonna be so unique to the individual. But really, if you go back to your strategy and authority, you really learn how to embody it and you start to follow what is presented to you. I think that's that's a big part of it. And it's not, it's not an overnight thing. It's not like you're gonna, you know, go from working your corporate job that you've been working for 30 years to like tomorrow, you know, jumping in to some big collaboration with somebody else. I mean, that that does happen for some people. I'm not gonna say it doesn't happen, but it doesn't need to look like that. Like you can take it slowly. You can start to notice who you really connect with and see what, you know, what comes out of that. So I'm not sure if that answered the question. I go off on tank it's quite no, I love it.

SPEAKER_01: 53:49

And I think that, you know, I know we hear so much about strategy and authority, especially when you're like new to it and you're coming in and everybody's saying it, you're like, oh my gosh, right. But and it is so hard because I think so many of us have been conditioned out of what we're what comes naturally to us, you know, like of course by well-intentioned adults and things like that. But like, um I think, yeah, you said like studying yourself. It that's I believe that's such a huge part of this, you know, like really getting to know yourself. And like I think if people have like a journaling practice at night, just like reflecting back of like what felt good, what didn't, what was aligned. Like, I think like really noticing those things, even in like manifestation, right? Like there's so many things, like small things I found like in my journey of manifestation that like I didn't take note of that I was like, oh, this isn't really, I guess you don't realize how much you're manifesting until you actually like write it down or have it visually in front of you, where it's like, oh wow, like I actually did like all of these things, you know. I think we gloss over some things sometimes. And yeah, with the inner authority, like in strategy authority, like I think, yeah, doing those in little ways because that builds the trust muscle. Because otherwise, if you're just like jumping in and like and like trusting what you don't trust because you don't know, right, it's it's hard to to um like reconcile that, I guess, right? Like it does take practice and and so many of us are just like so dysregulated, you know.

SPEAKER_00: 55:07

Yeah, and I mean, I think that's another important thing is like nervous system regulation because you have to feel safe with yourself in order to follow your strategy and authority, especially when it's asking you to do kind of out-of-the-box things.

SPEAKER_02: 55:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 55:23

So nervous system regulation, and especially like if you're dealing with any kind of trauma, working with somebody who is an expert and specializes in that to help you work through that so that you can really, you know, come into that place where you can be embodied and trust yourself. Like that's a big part of it for many, many people as well. And understanding the difference between I mean, like this, this, you know, we talked about this in the beginning of the episode, like actually feeling your inner authority versus thinking it or doing it. Because for the longest time, I was doing mine, which is not actually following your authority, like your authority lives in your body, it's not mental. And the mind is a beautiful, beautiful gift. Um, it helps us conceptualize, it helps us plan, it helps us share our ideas and our wisdom with others, but it's not your own inner authority. And one of my mentors always says, I mean, Ross said this too, like, your mind is not for you. Your mind is actually for other people. And your own inner authority lives in your body. So just recognizing, like, is your mind, and your mind's trying to protect you? You know, it is, it's it's trying to protect you with what it thinks it's best, even though your mind doesn't know what's best, your body does. It's like really coming back into your body and noting, you know, whatever your strategy and your authority might be, like, what does that actually feel like? Can you go back to a time where you'd even think, like, you know, if you are a generator, manifesting generator, like what does a sacral yes feel like to you? Because it's going to be unique, it's going to be different than another generator or manifesting generator. If you're a projector, like what does it feel like to be truly recognized for your unique gifts? Not just because you're there and you can do the job, but really being recognized for like what are your unique gifts? And manifestors, like, what do those creative urges feel like? And are you allowing yourself to honor creative cycles and then also rest cycles? Because I think that that can get in the way for a lot of manifestors is not honoring those rest cycles. And then reflectors as well, like being in the right communities and kind of reflecting and feeling into the environment and just making those comparisons of times that like something did really feel aligned versus when something did not feel aligned and you did it anyway. Because I I can tell countless stories of times when even before human design, when my intuition was like, don't do this, and my logic is like do this, and I did it, and it was like terrible. And also the opposite, where I was like, this is completely illogical, and people think I'm nuts, but I'm following my strategy and authority, and it worked out amazingly.

SPEAKER_01: 58:13

Yeah, I love that. I was gonna ask you what this would look like for each type and like showing up. Um uh yeah, it's it's so interesting. And I had a question and I was like so into like the whole, like all the types. Um, oh, well, I was gonna ask how much of like, so we talked about strategy and authority. And I don't know if you use this in in you know, coaching or anything like that, but like how much of our like the variables, specifically like the body variables, do you like pull into that, like being in the right place or you know, like your environment, the way that you're eating?

SPEAKER_00: 58:47

Very significant. And I like not even going down to the level of like, you know, your specific environment or your specific, you know, determination, but really even just looking at the arrows, the direction that the arrows are focusing or facing. And I do want to preface this with variables change very quickly. So having a very accurate birth time is really important. But with variables, um I three of my variables face right and only one face is left. So my focus, I can focus in a very strategic and very detailed way. But the rest of my life is very like peripheral and receptive and forcing strategies for somebody with a lot of right-facing arrows, like it's having a you know, set schedule and doing this and this every day, like doesn't work for those of us that are very right-facing. That can work for people that are very left facing, like having a content calendar and having your schedule perfectly set and knowing exactly what you're gonna do at what time every day. That might work, you know, if you're more left facing, but for those of us that are more right facing, like that doesn't necessarily work. So, I mean, it is very unique, also depending on which arrows are facing right and left, and there are six. Different combinations. So I do bring that in. I do think it's very important. Um it really can tell you a lot about how to show up in life. And I will say, with the variables, like when I really started to kind of relax into my variables, and you can't do them either, especially the unconscious ones. Like if you're following your strategy and authority over time, naturally these things will fall into place. So you can't be like, well, I'm receptive and I should be in a caves environment. So I'm gonna make a cave and I'm gonna sit there and just wait for stuff to come to me. Like, no, that's not how it works. Um, but if you're also aware that it's like it's like another deeper layer of like, what does it feel like when you're really in the right flow, if you are more right-facing versus more left-facing? And it gives you like this extra layer that helps you then tune into your strategy and your authority as well. And I found that like as I've become more aligned with my variables and I start to notice what like resonance really feels like. And, you know, we can go into the deep layers, like your traject trajectory being activated and your orientation being correct, which again is not something you can do. It just happens naturally when you're in alignment. But when I can notice, I'm like, oh, this is what that feels like. Okay, like we're on the right track, or like, no, this is not what that feels like. So not really on the right track. It's really, it's very helpful. Um, but I do caution people, like I know it's like super fascinating stuff. And people like sometimes when they're brand new to human design, they're like, I want to know what this means and this means and this means, and I know because I was that person too with my five one, my first line, and I have a lot of first colors in my variables too. But um I recommend waiting a little bit and really understanding what your strategy and authority feels like, and you know, understanding more about your body graph before you dive into variables. And then when you do dive into them, like when the time is right, that stuff will click. Because I've tried to dive into them like prematurely, and it was just like all this theoretical stuff in my head.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:07

But when the time actually was right, that's when it really I was like, oh, okay, I see. Like I can sense how this is actually showing up in my life and how it is giving me feedback as to, you know, how like how much in alignment I am, and also like those little cues when I'm out of alignment.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:29

I love that. I also same thing. When I first learned human design, I went in hard, you know, like I was like everything. I wanted to consume everything that was like the logical part of my mind, just like wanting something to do. But I do say that it's interesting with human design. It's like you can intellectualize the stuff, but when it's ready, when you're ready to actually feel it and like be it, kind of it it makes so much sense in such a different way, like in you know, that lived experience way. So I love that. It's that's very much the experience that I've also found with human design because yeah, it's so easy to get so heady about it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:02

Yeah. And I mean, there is something I think to be said too, like, in order to really deeply understand something, like and embody it, you do need an intellectual understanding of it first. And it goes so much deeper than that. Like you can have the intellectual understanding for a while before you actually start to embody it. So, you know, obviously, I do think like the studying part and the the creating awareness about your own design is really important, and then allowing it to just like seep in and sink in and knowing, like feeling that resonance.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:35

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And going back to the authenticity, some of us are just obsessed with the information, right? Like that we just want to consume it. And yeah, but yeah, it just hits different, I think, when you're ready to like actually embody it, you know, and not just like have it swimming around in your head. Because I mean, that's such an easy thing to do. And it's interesting because I also have three right arrows. I have one left arrow, but so many people which one is left for you. Um, my bottom right, I can't remember what is um oh okay, that's your perspective.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:01

So same as me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:01

So we have the same, I love it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:03

We have the same variable.

SPEAKER_01: 1:04:05

Yeah. Yeah. And I find like for me, yeah, it's like structure is so hard, but like when I'm focused, I'm focused. Like I'm in it. So, like my consumption of information when I'm like so like locked into that. And it's funny, I have a lot of people that come into my world that are like quad left and like super logic based. And I'm just like, I like I I get it, but I also am so fluid in so many other different ways. It's it's a really interesting uh combination there.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:32

Part of me is just like, I wish I would just all quad right, but I think I would like I actually think like having a little bit of both. I have interestingly enough, I have quite a few quad left in my life too, and a few quad rights, but I think having a little bit of both because this, you know, going back to the solar plexus mutation and this era shift, like we're moving from this very logical all left to this more like holistic fluid all right. And when we have a little bit of both, we kind of have an understanding of both of those things.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:02

Yeah. Yeah, it's kind of like that bridge to you know, like the question earlier, right? Where it's like, how do we like combine this like old left, you know, brain and then the right that's on the right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:14

Yeah, and then going back also to the raves because it's like they're gonna all be more right. So they don't have any of that like strategic, but just part of like the way they do their strategy is in small groups as well. It's like they get the strategy through the penta or the you know, a small unified group.

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:30

Yeah. Well, I think just understanding, you know, human design and astrology and like having this information is is so helpful. And you know, Ra always talks about like this is for the kids, so like being able to have this as a tool for you know parents, but also just for people in relationship to like I can't tell I dated a reflector for over a year and human design, like it kind of it helped me so much because like I'm an I like we didn't work out, just like I'm so quick, I'm so fast. Like it was just it was it was there was a lot to it, but it was really challenging for like his like I can honor his slowness and what he needed, but also like I just need a different speed.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:04

But it did you already know human design when you were dating him?

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:07

Yeah, I did. Yeah, he was a three-six reflector, and so I was interesting, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:06:11

Yeah, it was so much resonance in your profiles.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:14

There was, and we did get along really, really well. But yeah, the it was that was really challenging. The energetics of it, like as far as that was was tough. We created a nine and oh, too. So it was like when we were together, there was like nothing else. I've noticed like a few partners where that it's like you I literally don't even see anything else when we're like oh, there's no one but us. It's interesting. Um yeah, but yeah, it's just really helpful, and even like with my kids, you know, and I think sometimes it's it's challenging because it's like you have this awareness, you see this, you know, like my son is sacral, my daughter's emotional. And so my son, if there's any hesitation, I know it's a no, but then there's a part of me that's just like, let's just do it. Like, what do you, you know, but then I have to like honor like, no, he he doesn't want to do this thing. And if I want him to honor himself, I have to sit here and honor it. And it's so confronting, right? Because like as children, most of us weren't given that. You know, it's just like you do what you, you know, that's why we're so conditioned out of just like being ourselves. But yeah, I don't know, it's it's it's beautiful and it's helpful, and also it can be really frustrating because we're just like trying to pave a new way, but then we have all these little hooks from like our past, and it's like this push-pull.

SPEAKER_00: 1:07:18

Yeah, it is it is really amazing, though, to be able to look at like your charts and the charts of your kids and your loved ones, your partners, and see, you know, where some of the little challenges lie. And I don't know, I just find it so empowering. Like it's helped me so much in my relationship for sure, and like really understanding other people and not taking things personally that I might have taken personally in the past. Um, it is, yeah, it's it's such a such a cool gift.

SPEAKER_01: 1:07:47

Yeah. And even emotionally, there there was something you said earlier when you were talking about um, you know, strategy and authority that I kind of wanted to like touch on and and bring into the conversation. And um, but just like you mentioned trauma, right? And I think like you said, that a lot of people do deal with whether it's big T or little T trauma, like that's it creates um an abandonment of the self of your body, right? And I think that, you know, I have trauma that shows up very strongly in my body that doesn't always make sense. And that has been a challenge in trusting my authority, my strategy and authority, because I'm like, what is actually my truth? What is my trauma? And you know, I've I've understood that the chaos, the familiar feeling is not my authority, right? And like having to sit with that, but it's it's been a huge practice. And, you know, there are still some days, like, oh my gosh, this last Mercury retrograde in Scorpio just like oh, was so hard. Like all of that stuff came up, but it was just like having to go through it again and it kind of like helped me move through my progress and healing and just showed me it showed me how much I've healed, but also showed me where I still need to heal, you know, it's so challenging. But I guess like my question is, you know, as all of this stuff shifts and as we're like coming more into our body, um, like is there something, is there any advice or like something that we can do? Um, I guess with with or without trauma, but specifically speaking to like somatic work, right? Like within our system to like move through this. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:10

Yeah. Um, you know, I think it it does come back to strategy and authority to finding what the right somatic work is for you. Because truthfully, I mean, we all need somatic work. Like we all have, like you said, we've got there's a big T's and then there's also the little T's. Like we all have some of that to work through. So really noticing like what is the correct somatic work for you. And if you're working with a teacher, like who's the right teacher for you? Like noticing who you attract, who attracts you, and then doing doing that work. And that might also shift for you. Like, I have gone through so many different and I have the strengths of cycles or the channel of cycles in my in my design too, where it's like I go through phases where I'm very into one particular somatic practice. I really focus on it. I studied very in-depthly in my first lines. Like, I need to get certified, and then I spend a lot of money and then I move on. You know, but but it's like uh finding what works for you, and it might change. You might stick with something for a little while, and then something else like is really pulls you in, and then you work with that for a little while, but just finding what works for you. And uh, you know, the simplest thing I think is just to start with a breath and just breathing and feeling your breath in your body, slowing down your exhales, especially if you're feeling like triggered or your nervous system is really activated. And then when you get to a place where you can really allow yourself to actually feel your feelings, because that part is huge. And not like it, not everybody will be ready for it. It's something that took me a while to get to. Um but now when your uh feelings come through, especially the ones that we label as bad, that we don't want, you know, like fear, anger, sadness, um, disappointment, all of these, these feelings that we're like, oh, I don't want to feel this. But if you can literally just go into your body, you can close your eyes and feel somatically like what that feels like without attaching a story to it. So that's the really hard part because we feel these feelings that we don't like, and then we start telling ourselves like some story about it, or you know, why the other person was wrong, or why you're justified, or why you shouldn't feel this way, or maybe it distracts you and you know, you get up and go to the fridge or have a drink or whatever it is. Like if you can catch yourself doing that and come back into your body and feel the physical sensation, because really all it is is an unpleasant physical sensation, which if you're alive and listening to this right now, you have literally survived all of the unpleasant physical sensations you've ever had. So if you can just sit with it and allow it, it'll shift, like it'll move around, maybe it moves to another part of your body, and you just keep following it around until it just dissipates on its own. And that is like really um you're metabolizing emotion. I have an amazing mentor, Adrian Walker Hall. She has a system called 5D crystalline emotion. And so she talks about this in like such a beautiful way of like metabolizing emotions and really allowing emotions to move through you. And then they open, it's almost like they open new doorways to new information that comes through. So if you're in a place where you feel safe enough in your body to allow yourself to really feel those feelings, try that one out. And if you're not, then go to the other tools that help you. Maybe it's EFT or breath work or whatever it is to just um, my mentor calls is pulling the parachute of relief, like if it gets too intense, and allow like really stretching your ability to feel those emotions and allowing them to really move through you. And the more you do that, the the more you'll allow yourself to do it, if that makes any sense. Um, that's something that's really helped me with my emotional wave and also being a manifesting generator with four defined motors and like even my not self-theme, even frustration, any of those things, literally just allowing myself to feel it and just pausing, stopping everything, and just taking time to feel. And it doesn't take long. It's not like you're gonna be there for like an hour. It takes a few minutes.

SPEAKER_02: 1:13:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:27

And it's amazing, like the things that can come through and that you open up to when you really metabolize your own emotions.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:37

Yeah, I think in the resistance of what keeps it like, you know, present and like stretched out and like such this long process that it's like if you can actually come inside and sit with it. And I love that that what you shared, like following it, you know, and like in the body. That's really beautiful. I I I try and like come inside and anytime, well, especially when the mind gets loud. I'm just like this, I visualize my inner child, you know, and it just gives me it, it kind of softens it a little bit where I'm like, she's just having a fit. She wants to be seen, she wants to be heard. Like, because I feel like that's what we all want. We want to be seen, we want to be recognized, we want to be heard. We're so many children, right? Like we just weren't heard, we weren't acknowledged. So you're you're just like, what do you know? Like, go, like, go to your room, or like it was just always like, you know, I mean, we started offline, you know, talking about like family a little bit, right? But like with that solar plexus, like understanding, kind of tying back into like understanding people's charts. Like, my entire family was undefined emotionally, and I was the only defined one. So it was like anytime I had an emotional expression, it was like, go to your room, right? So it was like I took on this message that I was just wrong for having emotions, right? And through like my romantic relationships and friendships, it was has been this like theme of like when I'm emotional, people leave. That's kind of been like a an underlying subconscious belief. And I've done a lot of work to like break that, where it's like, no, actually, the emotional part of me is the most beautiful part of myself, right? And like I've had to do the work to love it myself because I didn't for a long time, right? So I think like, yeah, I think a lot of people just don't spend the time to come in and have a relationship with the emotional world because it is really painful, especially when you have trauma attached to it. When it brings up memories and stories, and and a lot of times, yeah, we just don't even understand what it is. We don't know, we just feel bad, and that's the story, right? So I love that kind of like exploring it and coming inside and having some practice that works to bring you into it. Because yeah, if you can't connect with your body, you can't connect with your strategy and authority, you know, and that's kind of what we need to come into.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:32

I also want to talk to the undefined emotional solar plexus for a minute since we both have a defined um the importance of recognizing because if your solar plexus undefined, you're gonna have your own feelings, like you know, good things are gonna happen that you'll be happy about and bad things will happen, you'll be sad. But in addition to that, you're picking up the emotional waves of everybody around you. And I always like to describe this as like being emotionally defined. I can tell what somebody's feeling by observing them and looking at them. You know, they're stomping around and they must be mad or they're crying, they must be sad. But it's not like I'm having the physical experience. Whereas somebody that's emotionally defined, like you're physically having the experience of the emotional waves that are around you. So learning to really determine like what is actually yours and what are you experiencing in your body that is not yours from people around you? Because you do not have to metabolize other people's emotions. Like you're not responsible for them. Other people's emotions are information for you. Being undefined means your solar plexus is a great source of wisdom and you get to experience it in so many different ways, where those of us that have defined experience it in a very consistent and specific way. So, really tuning in, like when you are picking up emotions, like, is this actually mine? Or am I picking this up from around me, not identifying with emotions that are not your own? Um, you do not need to metabolize other people's emotions. You can just let them flow through. And if you need to break auric space, you know, if you're in a very emotionally like in a situation where you're really picking up somebody else's stuff, going off into your own space, just taking some time to release anything that you might have taken up in your centers is really important. Um, but yeah, really learning like the difference between what's yours and what is theirs, and you know, coming back to the trauma work, like you may have stored emotions in in your solar plexus that you've been picking up from other people for God knows how long. So really learning to like release that stuff and work through that as well is is yeah, really valuable work.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:45

Yeah. You said the physical experience is different for the emotional and undefined.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:50

Well, I mean, this is okay. So not not being undefined, I don't actually have any any embodied experience of what this is like. But my understanding is that people that are emotionally undefined can physically experience in their own bodies uh the emotions of other people in an amplified way, even. So, like if I'm feeling sad and I'm sitting next to somebody who's undefined, they might feel doubly as sad and they might think that it's their sadness, but they're actually picking it up from me. Where I might be sitting next to somebody who's it doesn't matter what their definition is, and they're sad, and I can see that they're sad, and I might really love them, and it makes me sad to see them sad because I really love them, but that's my sadness. I'm sad because they're sad because I love them, but I'm not physically feeling their sadness in my body, if that makes sense. And I'd love to hear your experience, being that you are defined emotionally, and like how that shows up for you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:52

Yeah, I find that, you know, sometimes in in the past, specifically too, I I say it, it's almost like I'm selfish in my emotional experience because I can't feel what other people are feeling, right? Like I do think I'm an empath and I have feeling cognition. So there is a sense of like when I first learned about the undefined solar plexus with the people pleasing and the lying and things like that. I was like, I was like, am I undefined emotionally? But like I'm so in my own emotional experience that like I think my trauma helps me pick up little nuances and changes of behavior. And I can fuse that with actually feeling what they're feeling, but I think it's coming from me, right? It's just I'm I'm paying attention more so than anything else, and that changes my emotional experience. But it's interesting because my son is undefined emotionally, but he has almost every gate activated. I think he doesn't have like two. So when my daughter and I get around him, he's also a Scorpio rising. This is why I love the fusion of female design and astrology. So when he gets emotional, you know, first of all, it's a good mirror for me. Cause I'm like, where am I dysregulated? Where's my daughter dysregulated? But his emotion switches to anger real quick. It's always anger is what comes out, right? That like Scorpio part of him was just like he rages, you know? But it's it, yeah, it's been a practice to tell him, you know. Know not everything what he feels is his. He might be experiencing something for me. And if he needs to remove himself, like and he was a two-four. So he's super, super social, he's super loving, but sometimes he'll just like turn off and go to his room. And I'm like, Are you okay? He's like, Yeah, I just wanted to be alone, right? So I'm like, okay, I have to honor that, right? But yeah, it's yeah, it is an experience. And I I think that like, yeah, like you said, I I don't feel other people's emotions. I I see them, but I don't I'm so in my own experience, especially when I'm activated, right? And I'm just like, I have to like check myself because I'm like, check in with other people. How are they feeling? Because it's not all about me. That can be hard sometimes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:37

You know, I love that you brought the variable into this as well, because I also have I used to think when I was like, I'm an empath, and then I was like, wait, I'm emotionally defined. And I'm like, all this makes sense because my emotional wave is like textbook. I also have a lot of right-facing arrows, and you know, like that substructure, like beneath the surface. Like I like to think of it like when we look at the variables and the arrows, it's kind of like the infrastructure of a city, you know, all of the little things that go together, you know, the roads and the wires and the water pipes and all that kind of stuff that's kind of like beneath the surface. And then when you look at your body graph, it's like this is, you know, when you're actually in the city and you're driving around and like what you see on the surface. So there's so many different layers and nuances to design, and it's so fascinating. And, you know, you said your perspective variable is left, so you can focus like really, really deeply, but you also have these three right-facing arrows that are very receptive, very peripheral, very open to the space around you. And, you know, so it's not all like one or the other. Like you may be emotionally defined and you may have an emotional wave and you are broadcasting that wave out around you, and people are picking it up, but then you also have these deeper, like this mental, like cognitive architecture that's also operating below the surface that does pick up things in different ways. So I mean, it's really like when you put the two together. I sometimes it gets confusing. Sometimes I'm sound like, okay, wait, I don't understand this yet. I need to hear it in 57 different ways. Um, but yeah, I mean, it does, you know, and of course, the astrology, my mom was an emotionally undefined manifester who was a cancer sign, the scorpio moon, and scorpio rising. So you could end with the daughter that had a 3748. So you can only imagine what that was like. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:33

Yeah, that's why I love like bridging the two. I there's um people who have like an open solar plexus with a Capricorn moon, or like one of my best friends is defined solar plexus with a Capricorn. It's just so interesting to see, you know, that dynamic of like, you know, a Capricorn moon is traditionally not very emotional, right? Like they compartmentalize things, but then with an emotional wave, yeah, yeah, yeah. Are you really? Yeah. But I think, like, right, like having that wave, it's like you might not be overly emotional, like maybe a Leo moon or a Scorpio moon or something like that, but you understand the mechanics and and energetics of an emotion, right? Versus somebody I was with who was uh completely open emotionally and a Capricorn moon was so detached from emotions, it was so hard to get through because like they just couldn't understand what I was experiencing, it was just so foreign to them, right? So it's so interesting to see like all those little dynamics, and like you said, there's so many nuances, and we it can mean we could go on forever about it because it's just like for sure, for sure. It's so interesting, yeah. Yeah, well, this has been so much fun. I've loved this conversation. Is there anything that you felt like maybe we didn't bring to the conversation that you wanted to like close with?

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:49

I mean, I think we did bring this to the conversation, but just to reiterate, like really connecting with your own inner authority and knowing what is true for you, and then following that, I think is the most important thing. And I know that's not an overnight, I know that's not a like, you know, follow your strategy and authority, and you're like, okay, cool, done. You know, it's obviously not like that, but I think it all comes back to that, like knowing what your inner truth is and then giving yourself permission to really honor it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:22

I love that. Well, thank you so much. And how can people work with you? How can they find you? And is there anything in like 2026 that you can share that that you're working on?

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:33

Um, you can find me at VanessaNaja.com. I also do a lot of work with Bodygraph. Um, you can find bodygraph at bodygraph.com. We have monthly workshops that we do through Bodygraph. They are free for everybody. Um, so there's all that stuff is going on. Um, there's there's lots of things coming up in 2026, but you know, they're not they're not fully baked yet, so I can't share them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:00

Just go follow and find out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:03

Yeah, and you can also, you know, find us on Instagram, YouTube, both me and Bodygraph. All of those fun places. Yeah. Amazing. Well, thank you so much. Yeah, thank you so much. This is a wonderful conversation, and I really appreciate you having me on.