The Rochelle Christiane Podcast
Welcome to the Rochelle Christiane Podcast! This is the space where spirituality meets self-discovery and personal growth. I’m your host, Rochelle Christiane—your guide to holistic health, emotional regulation, embodiment and soulful alignment. This space is all about helping you reconnect with your body’s wisdom, master your emotions, and align with your unique energy using tools like astrology, Human Design, and holistic wellness practices. Each week, I’ll share transformative conversations and practical guidance to help you heal, embody your truth, and create deeper alignment in your life. This is your invitation to step into your power, trust yourself, and master your emotions. Let’s dive in!
Are you ready to connect deeply with your body, align with your energy, and unlock your fullest potential? Through my Wholistic Human Design Academy and one-on-one coaching, I help women like you embrace their intuition, understand their astrology and Human Design charts, and cultivate confidence in their unique energy. Together, we’ll create the alignment you’ve been seeking—whether it’s deconditioning limiting beliefs, attracting abundance, or finding peace within.
The Rochelle Christiane Podcast
230. Shadow Work and Spiritual Insight with Lauren Aletta
This week I speak with Lauren Aletta all about shadow, shadow work, dark nights of the soul, and everything we hide and avoid ourselves. This episode explores the transformational power of shadow work, diving deep into understanding and acknowledging our hidden emotions.
In this episode Lauren and I talk about:
• Shadow work as a journey toward self-acceptance
• The impact of mental health struggles and societal narratives on personal authenticity
• The interplay between personal shadows and collective issues
• Astrology's influence on emotional exploration during transitional periods
• Practical steps to engage in shadow work through reflection and awareness
Wholistic Human Design Academy
Free 7-Day Challenge: Unapologetically You: Real. Raw. Authentic.
Ep. 74. Energy Work, Intuition, and Radical Self Trust
Ep. 124. The Conscious Evolution of the Self
Ep. 189. The Dance of Darkness and Luminosity
Links:
Where you can find Lauren:
Where you can find Rochelle:
Instagram
Email: info@rochellechristiane.com
Where you can find Rochelle:
Instagram, TikTok, Website, YouTube
Welcome to the Emotional Mastery Podcast. I am your host, rochelle. I'm a holistic human design health coach and this is a space for human design and spiritual journey. It's not about being a master of your emotions, rather mastering the tools to self-regulate, to awakening yourself and remembering who you are. Human design changed my life about five years ago and I've been learning and teaching the system ever since. This podcast is human design meets spirituality, meets astrology. You don't have to have a belief system to be here, just an open mind and curiosity. This is a journey of meeting yourself and awakening to your infinite potential. Now let the magic begin. Welcome back to another episode of the podcast. I'm your host, rochelle, and this episode I speak with Lauren Aleta, who has been on the podcast every year to date, so you can check back to see or listen to previous episodes with her, but she is incredible energy reader, intuitive, psychic and she shares.
Speaker 1:We really dive deep into shadow work. In this episode we've again recorded episodes, like every year, and every year we sort of like tiptoe around the shadow and the darkness of things, and this episode we decided just to dive in because we love. We both love to go deep, we both love to have these conversations and to explore, and so that's what this episode is about. So you know, I give a little bit of a disclaimer if anything triggers you, I mean even even listening to it. I felt myself activated during a few parts of this conversation because, again, it does go deep and we go there. So we talk about mental health, we talk about addiction, we talk about shadow consciousness, different types of shadows, we talk about our soul's purpose, emotional expression, just the higher agenda, you know, when you're looking at governments and things like that. So we kind of touch on a lot of different things when it comes to shadow. But one of the things that I feel like is a big takeaway for this episode and a lot of what I have been personally moving through, and something that Lauren talks about is being our authentic self is shadow work. Because when we look from the lens of human design astrology, specifically, human design but we are conditioned to act a certain way, to be a certain way, we take in and amplify messages and stories and narratives from those around us from parents, teachers, friends, coaches, society and it's really hard to come back to our authenticity and I don't want to say disregard those things, but push back against them and truly come into yourself.
Speaker 1:And I talk a lot about body work, I talk a lot about health, I talk a lot about tuning into your body. You know, I think as a Taurus sun and Taurus midheaven, this is part of my purpose. Huge part of my purpose is feeling into my body, is helping others tune into their body. It goes hand in hand. My entire life has been this thread of being really misaligned in my body and feeling that very loudly, whether it was a pain in my throat, whether it was, you know, anger sitting on my chest. All of these things that really were hard to ignore.
Speaker 1:But as I've slowly begun to listen to my intuition and it's been a long process, it's been a long journey of not abandoning myself, because when we know in our system that we want to say no and we say yes, we're abandoning ourselves and in that we begin to not trust our intuition, we begin to not trust ourself and that connection is broken and, like any relationship, it takes time to rebuild that, a lot of time. There are times, even now, where I know exactly what needs to be done and I consciously choose to do the opposite and, trust me, I get angry with myself because I know better. I know better. But trauma is real. You know those internal narratives, those looping stories, emotional ups and downs. It's all real and it's all okay. This is your journey, this is your experience.
Speaker 1:And again, when we're coming into the authenticity, when we're trying to show up as our truest self, that honestly we change no matter who we're around. Every single person we're around, we are a different version of ourself and so it's really coming back to yourself and connecting with the most truest version of yourself, for you, not for what anybody else thinks, but for you. And that requires huge amounts of self-love because in order to really get clear on our values and our morals and who we are and who we want to represent and who we want to be and our goals and what we want to move towards, we really do have to love ourself. And that is a big challenge in itself. I know, for years I didn't realize how much I did not love myself until I was 31 years old and I was miserable and I was depressed and I was unhappy and I was trying to do this thing with two kids, being a single mom, and I was at an absolute rock bottom and I had to pick up the pieces, I had to come back to myself and that was what human design did for me. It gave me this languaging for, like holy shit, like I am not wrong for being who I am. This is just who I am and that is okay. And it allowed me to accept myself and that's part of why I so passionately teach the system, because if it can help you with self-love and self-acceptance, that is all that it's for right. And it's really in moving out of the mind and into the body that we are empowered to trust ourself and to rebuild that connection. And so this episode is really beautiful. It is a longer one and we again just really dive into shadow work and what it looks like and the different types. And Lauren just has a beautiful way with describing all of this. And she's done a lot of work. You know, 20 plus years of studying certain streams of spirituality and consciousness and religions and things like that.
Speaker 1:And again, you can check out her previous episodes on the podcast. I will link them. I'll link them in the show notes so you can just go click and listen to the last. I think this is episode four that she's been on here, if I'm not mistaken. But she's just, like I said, incredible. I've had multiple sessions with her, I have joined her group sessions and her newsletters. If you're not on her newsletter email list, she doesn't send them out a whole lot, but when she does, you can grab a tea, a coffee and just read for 20, 30 minutes and it's just so powerful and very intentional. So, yeah, I am going to oh this.
Speaker 1:So today is Thursday when you're listening to this, and Saturday the nodes shift and I think a lot of what we talk about in this episode is really related to the coming nodal shift. And if you're not familiar with what the nodes are, if you're, you know listening to this for the first time, you're not very familiar with astrology. The nodes are your. The north node is your purpose and direction and you know, as it's a transiting node, it's the collective. So it's just an overlying theme, but it's not necessarily you specifically. It really depends on where Pisces is in your chart and what planets you have there. And the south node is sort of the themes that we're familiar with. It's the things that we lean into when we're feeling discomfort, when we're feeling triggered, when we're feeling reactionary. We kind of lean more into that south node.
Speaker 1:But this is going to be the north node in Pisces and the south node in Virgo, and this is a really big shift from our north node in Aries. Right, this is Aries' action. Aries is aggression and assertion and moving forward and leadership and independence. And Pisces is a lot softer. Pisces is very spiritual. Pisces is watery, it's emotional, it's sensitive, it's psychic, but it can also hold a really big theme of escapism, which brings addiction, which we really get into in this episode right, losing ourselves in addiction, mental health. All of these things are held within Pisces.
Speaker 1:So we're really going to be spending over the next 18 months with this overarching theme of discovering ourselves, discovering our spirituality, and with Saturn having moved through Pisces and Saturn will be moving into Aries this year, in 2025, but Saturn has sort of been questioning that for us. Right, it's been setting structures and boundaries and trying to get us to be a little realistic about it. Right, and, depending on your personal experience, we'll be having impact. And Virgo, you know, virgo is health, virgo is work, virgo is in service to others. Virgo, you know, might have us overworking and then burning out and unwinding with these addictive patterns, but it really, really is focusing on our health, because we cannot be in the spiritual world, we cannot be without, you know, mind, body, spirit connection. It's all so important right Our emotions, our mind, our health, our gut health. Gut health is everything right. So that will be a huge focus as we're navigating this transiting theme. But that happens on Saturday and that's really the first and one of the most biggest, one of the most biggest, one of the biggest transits of 2025.
Speaker 1:So follow me on Instagram at Rochelle Christian R-O-C-H-E-L-L-E, dot C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N-E. I'm talking more about it there. I have a blog post or I have a sub stack post coming out. It will likely be out by the time this is out, so you can check out my sub stack. The link is down below. Mastery Monday newsletter.
Speaker 1:I also have a seven-day challenge called Unapologetically you, which is really helping you, through the lens of human design, connect with your authenticity and begin that deconditioning process. It has journal prompts, action steps, completely free. You can join it Again. Seven-day drip email will come to your inbox and just challenge you each and every day and again, journal prompts. That will help you peel back the layers and really get in tune with what's being shared as far as human design, and I believe there was something else that I was going to tell you about, but it has escaped me, so follow Lauren Aleta on Instagram as well. It's inner hue. She has a tarot deck new tarot deck. I will also link that below. It is absolutely beautiful, I love it, and all the ways that you can connect with both of us are down below.
Speaker 1:I thank you so much for listening and I hope you enjoy the episode. Share this with a friend, share it and tag us on Instagram. Let us know what you thought. I absolutely love hearing from you guys, so enjoy. Okay, welcome back to the podcast.
Speaker 1:We have Lauren Aletta today and we're going to dive into shadow. This is a topic that I feel like every time we've had a conversation, we sort of like touch on it and then we'll be like, you know, the last time we brought up doing a whole, I mean cause it is something that I feel like there's so much to say, and it's a topic that a lot of people avoid for a lot of different reasons within themselves, and so I'm really excited to go into this and I guess, for anybody listening, I'll probably put it in the intro too. But disclaimer, it could go dark, it could go deep, and so just I guess, if you're listening and you feel uncomfortable, feel free to skip or whatever, but we're going to do it. So I guess we'll start with, I guess, just like defining what shadow is for people that are listening, and then like how we can maybe identify it within ourselves and we can just go from there. Go from there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, okay, um, yeah, you know, even my, my concept of shadow has developed and developed and developed and developed and we focus on, say, our personal shadow, or we could say even just even collective shadow. Um, it's anything that is, I would say, like, repressed, anything that is hidden, anything that is unacknowledged, um, with that we hold within us or even within, then, society. So it is whatever it is, is relegated to. You know, the regions that we don't go and and explore and look at, um, I would say shadow also the, the energy of shadow, even though it can come in different expressions, so we could say, um is is like rooted in lack or rooted in fear. So where we have even abandoned ourselves or betrayed ourselves, where we're trying to compensate in some kind of way, um, you know people pleasing all of these different, they're different sort of characteristics or expressions of shadow, but they are all generally rooted in, you know, some kind of fear or some kind of lack. I would say also that shadow is then a description of a sort of a degraded consciousness or an out or an outdated consciousness. So if I have a like personal, like my own personal shadow, my own personal like deep fear, um of, let's say, you know, being rejected or being unwanted or not being loved, and I was to engage in coping mechanisms or strategies as a means to receive love. So it could be like manipulation, or it could be, you know, or people pleasing, which is kind of manipulation, um, or if I was to have, then instead of trying to coerce people to love me, but I was instead going into more destructive types of behaviors, so it could go into further isolation or, you know, means to make myself feel better. So different types of behaviors or addictions that are trying to sort of mask my unworthiness. This is the deeper that you go down in any one of those sort of lines, you're starting to get an increase of like, degrading your own consciousness. So you're, you're kind of making it, making it worse.
Speaker 3:But the other way that I would also describe shadow and think, yes, personally, but also collectively, because you can also go always micro to macro level or individual to collective. We could go bigger than that again too. But it's also when something is outdated. So when a consciousness is outdated, consciousness is outdated, and when we are still defining ourselves or defining our world or defining an area of our life through a belief or some kind of conditioning, a consciousness, a state of consciousness that is actually now smaller. We can no longer fit in it. I would also describe that as shadow, because what is going to happen is the person is going to continue to operate in something that is actually now too small for them and that's going to be reflected in themselves, their life, their attitudes. Things can get very stagnant, things can get very stuck and then naturally also potentially degrade from there, or different behaviors can come out of that.
Speaker 3:Um, I would describe shadow in and this is more like anthroposophical terms um, but as a means to be able to identify each one, they would call one luciferic and aromantic. So luciferic consciousness is, or that is, can motivate shadow in sort of addiction or in this chasing the high, a lot of pleasure, always needing to feel, feel really good, a lot of distraction. It's always like just really sort of high and you know, even say that toxic positivity and things like that. That's actually luciferic, it's just like always just think good. So that is where you can kind of start to observe the sort of quality of the impulse, of what is motivating you. So a person who's always needing to shop and get things to make themselves feel good, or drugs or alcohol, or you know, always needing to think almost like in delusion, like positively but in delusion, or just being delusional about their own reality or what might be happening, to avoid actually looking at the reality. That's expressions of um like yeah, a shadow aspect of that can be described with the impulse of lucifer, and the other one is araman.
Speaker 3:Naramonic force is more a like materializing, so it's dense, it cold, and this is when a person can become increasingly hardened and cold and, you know, like very disconnected from any feeling. Whereas, say, luciferic shadow is like the overindulgence in feeling, it's like big feelings of all the things. Yeah, the other is just cold, hardened, hardened, and there can be then a calculatedness to it. There is this lack of empathy that can happen to, it happen with you, or it becomes very strategic, or so, yeah, you you're um, really, what comes out of that is a loss of your own spiritual essence or force, so you're no longer connected to it, whereas with the Lucifer version of the impulse you're chasing that, you're chasing to feel always that, whereas the Aramonical materializing is is the reduction of that feeling, and it's then moving more into like um technology or control, and in those kinds of ways.
Speaker 3:Um, I'll say a couple other things. Is that okay? Yeah, of course, um shadow is held in the astral body. Our shadow it's sort of our unprocessed emotions. Um, so when we haven't dealt with our unprocessed emotions or traumatic events, all of that is stored and held in the astral body, which is linked to our nervous system. The moon, the astral body, is also known as the soul body, and so we have the regions of that. The moon is connected to our soul body or our astral body, and why the moon works with us in being able to reveal our shadow. The moon's also connected to our karma, and we can describe karma in a sense as, as it can be, as a, as a what we're initiating ourselves through in regards to our shadow. So it gives us an opportunity to really review or redo something, and we might see this as why do I have these particular challenges? Why, throughout the course of my life, repeated and repeated and repeated, is this ongoing theme and it's difficult and it hits on my shadow and I find it really hard.
Speaker 3:So we can have a kind of really negative sort of relationship to to that and we want to fix ourselves or, you know, even obsess over it whereas, whereas you know, or want to push it away, not acknowledge it or do the opposite, dive way too deeply in it or then meet in the middle of being in the pit of despair over it. I think we do all of those things, but really anything that we could say is our like shadow, in that very much reoccurring theme way, and this is where I would say we've got kind of almost different layers of shadow. Shadow can be just unprocessed emotions, that sort of really get on top of you and start to weigh you down and, needing to be clear, to affect you in different ways. But then I think that they're at a deeper level. That is shadow, that is very acts like a catalyst of initiation and that is deeply connected to what I would say is our sole purpose. Because our sole purpose isn't just this rosy, you know, skipping along, you know the yellow brick road kind of thing. Our sole purpose is very much also about recognizing, acknowledging, embracing and working with the shadow that catalyzes us into a sort of higher expression of ourselves we have.
Speaker 3:We're further developing and integrating our soul and our spirit, which means that our morals and our thoughts and our relationship to each other and to the world and to even the heavens, is deeply changing.
Speaker 3:And we usually can't do that until we are really facing ourselves off and seeing the truth of who we are, which is incredibly uncomfortable. You know we are the sum truth of. You know our thoughts, actions and deeds, ultimately, or our morals, and even the way in which we can think about another person, um, or a situation. We might seem one way on the outside, but when it comes to death or going through you know the process after death um, we are seen for the truth of who it is, that we really are on the inside. So nothing on the outside is there to act as some kind of distractive. Um, you know material veneer. You could say yeah, um, I could go on. You got darken out of the soul. We were like there's a thing and I, I, what I meant initially, which is over the years, just, my understanding of shadow was totally really opened up and, yeah, there are many different facets to to it yeah, I really like the distinction between you described like the Luciferic and the Aramaic shadows.
Speaker 1:I can. I've had very few, I mean, well, we've had sessions before. So I think you know like I'm very feeling and I like shadow for me is, I mean, it's very much a feeling, and there have been a handful of times that I've gotten into that just shut off, cold, where I just don't feel anything, and when I get to that place I almost scare myself because it's like I feel like when my emotions are turned off like that, it's almost like I'm out of control because I don't, I don't know how to, I don't know how to operate without that feeling. Right, that's always like my guide. But then the the extreme other end, where in my past, where I've, you know, the alcohol, the sex, the drugs, the this, that, and it's like sometimes I'm chasing that pain, like I want to hurt, like it's like I'm chasing the feeling, it's like I have to feel something, and that's usually it's probably in a response to being shut off or something that triggered me so much that I had to detach and then I threw myself in the other way, detach and then I threw myself in the other way.
Speaker 1:But times like that, I feel like destructive is a word that I used to in my mind. I would just think like I'm in that destructive mode where it was just like I didn't care, I just wanted to hurt. I wanted to feel something, you know, and that's can be a scary place to be in, you know. Like you, it's rooted in fear, you know, and for me, I think, a fear of anger or fear of rejection or whatever the cause was, and it's like you're just chasing the ability to feel something, even though it doesn't solve the problem.
Speaker 1:But I think that, sorry, go, yeah, no, it's just say for me, like when I quit drinking, it was because I was coming to that place, so like, over and over and over again, and I was just like I was just destructive with my life and I was just woke up and I was like I, I can't be like this anymore, like something has to change. And so that year that I stopped drinking, I really had to sit with my shadow in those moments where I wanted to go, be like that or chase the sex or chase this and just like you know, and those things, and it was like, okay, why, you know? And that that was equally as hard as avoiding the shadow, right, because then you're just, you have to accept it and see it, and so, but it was a powerful year as well.
Speaker 3:Well, I was going to say that requires a lot of self-control or spiritual will. You're not flexing that spiritual will when you're going out and you're drinking and in the destructive behavior. And then, yes, it got so uncomfortable that you're going out and you're drinking and in the destructive behavior and then, yes, it got so uncomfortable that you're then making the choice not to drink and be able to sit with it, which is like a certain level of um courage, courageousness and um choice. But it's also then, you know, getting hit with those impulses that you still would have been hit with. Life still happens. You still get triggered.
Speaker 3:You know if you're going to open the door to shadow, it's like, oh, okay, cool, well, here's some and here's some more, and here's some more. You're like, oh, and so you're still getting flooded with those impulses. But in that way you're also starting to learn what those impulses and energies are in you and you can start to, um, you know, learn how to work with them, essentially not just not use a sense of will and just go away and distract your escape. But that's the other thing with that luciferic element, it's escapism, it's it's. It's escapism. And even with the aramonic month it's a different type of escapism in the sense of it's just now shut down, it's just like yep yeah yeah like I I mean, I don't know, it makes me think of vampires.
Speaker 1:You know, they like in old, like vampire movies, like just flip the switch to turn it off right and then they're just like chaos and like murder and all those things like that. But um, yeah, I don't know that one it's.
Speaker 1:It's so interesting to me to, just because it, I mean, it goes somewhere what you mean like if you're, if you're in that like aramaic, where, like for me, it's like I, I feel nothing, but I, for me, I guess, like underneath that, like feeling nothing is like this intense, like anger that's building like slowly, so maybe I'm not completely in that, in that space, but it's like, it's like I'm so beyond like my range of anger that it's like I almost can't grasp it. It's so big maybe, and I don't know if that is a part of it.
Speaker 3:It would be like when people describe like psychopaths a person who is also devoid of any kind of feeling. So yeah, you know, and it's where we get to a place of, I would say, high-level control. So here I'm going to just be controversial, as usual. But people you know at a global scale of governance, so when you've got you know the people in the, like Harahi and who's the other, of the World Economic Forum, the what is that fellow's name? But basically it's really just absolute mechanisation of everything. Here is the control. So when it's at an individual level, if a person has gone, you know, really lost, that darks themselves and they're just deeply cold, everything then is very mechanistic. There's very little feeling behind it. It's highly calculated and planned, like that's how I would, you know it's, it's robotic to that, to that point, and that's, you know, very extreme.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it's um yeah, I've never touched that then, cause I'm like I don't know, I don't know how to like, not feel, cause, like, even when I say I feel, like I sometimes shut it off, I still feel the anger beneath it. Yeah, it's just a different. It's not like an overwhelming like, I think, with the other one. For me it's like it's chasing the pain, chasing the high, chasing the this, chasing that, that, it's that instant gratification, whereas the other one is this like calm, cool, calculated, but I feel the thing growing inside, right, and so I'm still feeling something. I guess so like for people I guess that don't, and I know everybody experiences emotions differently, but like some people, I watch and I like how do you? And maybe they're feeling and they just don't express it.
Speaker 1:But sometimes I'm like I don't know, and this is like with human design and astrology. That I think is interesting. You know, if you look at the solar plexus, you know I dated someone a while ago that has a completely undefined or open solar plexus, so they have no energetic connection to that aspect of themselves and only like once in like two and a half years, that I see them like slightly emotional. Everything else was always like, really it felt cold to me, which is very like you know, and I would be like I don't I don't know how to like even engage with that world Cause it's just very different from what I'm used to, and I'm not saying that you know my emotions, cause I was so dramatically emotional.
Speaker 1:It's the opposite side of shadow, right, whereas like it just ran everything, it took over everything, it just created so much chaos because I couldn't separate myself from the emotion.
Speaker 3:And I feel like.
Speaker 1:that's been a huge lesson for me over the last two years is being able to sit and be like okay, like taking the story out of the emotion and separating them, and be like I can feel this, but it doesn't have to mean this and I don't have to do this or say this or act this right, I can just be with it, and that was super challenging, but it's helped me so much, yeah and I think that's the only like the way you work with it gets to that, that part, and I think you know we can.
Speaker 3:So there's like, again, even with going into our shadow and healing, there is the intellectualization. Lots of people can intellectualize their experiences and understand it very intellectually. That isn't at all really addressing anything that is actually stored in our body, in our energy field. And when then you start to go into your actual body and healing it, you're then processing all of those, that emotion, but you're able to then start to like dissect it, just as what you described, and be able to go okay, so this came from this event, this is the belief, this is the story that I made up about it. This is the sort of coping mechanisms I developed to, you know, either continue enforcing that story or as a means to cover up, as a means to push down that story, and you're starting to separate it all and understand all its moving pieces, whilst at the same time recognizing that you're doing the observing of all of that.
Speaker 3:And so there is that separation from hang on this isn't me per se, um, and yeah, it can become very then like healing and empowering and sort of you start to get more I want to say control, but it's really like knowledge and wisdom, I would say, about yourself, and you are able to come more into your authenticity, your own deeper truth, and get to discover what that actually is and then begin to get very creative in and again self-defining in, you know how, what you're going to develop, to sort of replace that or again initiate yourself through what is now old or what has never fit yeah yeah, for people that like, where it's so repressed to the point that, like I think that's, you know it comes from a coping mechanism, this you know, sort of in childhood or and I think I don't know my question I'm trying to dig for my question here because I have it it's like people that have it so repressed that maybe it appears to be Aramaic, where they're not feeling, they're really cold, calculated, like I think, and it is like, if you look at their life, they have had traumatic childhoods or things that clearly have caused that sort of behavior.
Speaker 1:I guess, like the dismissive avoidant where they've had to take care of themselves, they've had to be selfish, they've had to do it. And then I mean, yeah, because I've asked people who appear maybe like that to me and I'm like how do you feel frustration? And they're like I don't know, I just think I'm frustrated, like there's no like feel as as it's been described, like I said, I have a really hard time even understanding that. But I guess, like, how do you eventually like I feel like if they even let themselves feel it would be so big and overwhelming, like I don't know there's a question here and I am very poorly wording this.
Speaker 3:No, no, I get what you're speaking to and I also don't know what that is Like. I have that same level of curiosity as what you do like wow, I'm so interested. What is that that like for you? I mean, so I don't know that I could really share what you know. That that's about it's more observing.
Speaker 3:So there are people that I know that actually are very emotional and very emotionally connected to their feelings lots of empathy, lots of compassion, can get angry, can have explosions, you know, can have um grief or frustration.
Speaker 3:But then there are some things that I know that they've experienced and like there is this deep guilt or there is this deep shame and that is corralled off and so that's like what they don't let themselves sort of experience and that would come out in. I would potentially describe it as that dismissive, avoidant, because when that shame or that um guilt can get activated, um, then it's like not cold and just like devoid and can get really locked into um a particular kind of like state of consciousness. So if I was to describe that energetically or psychically, yeah, that person is like, they are very, they have locked themselves off into basically an isolation, so that they don't feel what has been triggered and what is coming up. They are very hard to reach. It's like that there's, you know, for an X amount of period of time that they are locked into that place. It's like they're unreachable in so many ways.
Speaker 3:So, even if you're communicating to them, there is a sense of distance, I suppose. But no, I'm with you, I operate like you, so it's like I can't imagine it. It feels very foreign.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's hard to even like relate. I feel like when, like, if you're in a partnership with somebody like that, or in a relationship with someone like that, it's like how do you even I don't know, there's no way you could understand each other almost yeah, yeah, I mean I suppose when something gets very triggered like that, the other person needs time to defrost.
Speaker 3:That's that anxious and avoid kind of dynamic. And because when that, you know, dismissive, avoidant or avoidant is that deeply triggered, they, they go cold, they need to go offline. You know, there's this, I guessistic, I'm just now throwing myself into work, go through the motions, remove myself from being able to feel anything and not willing to place themselves in positions where that might be triggered. You know, again, it's like no um, and the anxious is is very um, you know wanting, wanting that connection, wanting that engagement wanting to understand, wanting to feel seen.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, the one time this person that he dismissive and I'm more anxious in that dynamic, the one time that they were emotional, they like stepped out of the room and I, in hindsight, I was, I feel like I out of the room and I, in hindsight, I was, I feel like I horribly handled the situation but like I like burst in there and I was like you don't have to be here if you don't want to, cause I wanted the connection, like you said, I wanted him to share with me. I wanted and I realized in hindsight, in that moment I made him feel completely unsafe to even like be in the space with me and be emotional, but it's just, it's yeah, it's emotional, but it's just, it's yeah, it's growth and learning. You know, being able to be like wow, that was maybe not the best move to have made in that moment. But this is also why alcohol and emotions, just for me, I had to take a step back from that and assess, like, when I'm drinking and why I'm drinking, because you, you know, it heightens all those things. And I think, like I was listening to a podcast, I think it might've been oh no, it was the audio book, but he was talking about addiction and he was saying that he was like a rabbi. But he was saying that, you know, addiction in itself a little bit allows us to sort of like peek into that connection right, the drugs, the alcohol, us to sort of like peek into that connection, right, the drugs, the alcohol, it sort of like gives us a glimpse as to what's possible.
Speaker 1:And he was saying that a lot of people who are addicts it's because they are so sensitive and so potentially able to connect so deeply that they're like constantly chasing that, because the everyday life, like the mundane, the like, you know, surface level things, is really hard for a space to be in. And I I was like, well, that's so true, cause there's so many people you know, people that I know that were former addicts or struggle with alcohol and things like that. And once you get into these conversations, like there's so much depth and they're so curious and they really want to go there and they really want to understand themselves in the world. But I think that it's like then you come back to life of like struggles with money and struggles with parenting and struggles with all these things and it's like harder to maybe like adapt the soul into those things. And I was thinking like Pisces, with that right Cause, I think that's Pisces, struggle is Pisces, is very spiritual, but it's having to be in this, in this, you know, 3d and it's like that, that disconnect, I guess, between the soul and the body maybe, and so it's just, it's a really interesting. It was an interesting point and I think about, you know, my years of, I mean, I guess in hindsight I would say, addiction.
Speaker 1:I would probably classify my alcohol use as more of an addiction, because I was detaching, I was was disassociating, I was just trying to numb myself, to not feel so much. But at the time, especially in my early 20s, I feel like it served me in the sense of I don't know. I guess that it made me feel like I connected with people deeper, but it was not really deeper. Right at the end of the day, right Like the next day, I would kind of go back to my normal life and I'd be like, oh, that was cool. And then I maybe it'd feel awkward and like now I feel like now I'm when I'm more showing up as myself and being my authentic self in public and not being like, oh, I can't talk about spirituality, I can't talk about human design, I can't talk about astrology, like now that I show up and somebody says something, I'm like, oh, do you know?
Speaker 1:Your birth time was like, check it out. Now I'm able to more deeply have what I was craving without the alcohol, right. But I think that you don't. There are so many like. You can't be like this, you can't be like that. All your conditioning and trauma and things like that make you feel like you have to be a certain way and it's like reaching for something outside of that. So I mean Like, forget it all. But I'm like, okay, there are, there are, you know, it's the balance now. But I don't know. I just think that addiction is really interesting because it is super shadowy, but I think that I'm not promoting it in any way, but I'm just saying there's.
Speaker 3:There's a reason why we it's an state, yeah yeah, it's an altered state of consciousness and so in that altered state you are now able to sense and feel more sense, and feel more of yourself, sense and feel more of others. You know, you know, and then again it depends on the person and the dynamic, um, but yeah, it's like there, it's allowing you into something that you don't you, you don't feel you can enter into. Ultimately, from that, more like sober or, you know, state or, as you say, then even the material world that can be, that can be definitely tricky at times, um, and I think you know these are. Why is why spirituality is so important? But it's not just the intellectualizing of spirituality, it is the active kind of curiosity in it in that, you know, being in the material plane is incredibly spiritual. We can use our spiritual forces, we can acknowledge spirit in literally everything and it's actually our materialized thinking. So, again, very mechanistic, very intellectual or very like separate from god. Here is just the anatomy, here is just the physics, here is the structure, here is the rules, here is the.
Speaker 3:You know, that is all sort of devoid of spirit and in that regard, and so we have to, you consciously, start to work with ourselves to notice and sense and feel the spirit of ourselves, or the spirit and energy of our life, the spirit of the people that we interact with, and what is the like. Why are what are we infusing in what we're doing? What are we doing in our household? Why are we doing the routines or making the choices that we're doing? What are we doing in our household? Why are we doing the routines or making the choices that we're doing? You know it's, it's becoming more active in, basically, it's deconditioning our sort of very devoid, materialized, dry relationship with the world and starting to spiritualize it again. And that does not happen in the head. And a lot of people can have a lot of spiritual or esoteric knowledge and yet be still incredibly material and very disconnected. They can just relay it out and not actually have the experience of it.
Speaker 3:And, like all of what you've described in working with your own shadow, it takes the same kind of effort or work to then you know when you're going around and things are feeling heavy, or you are in that dark night of the soul and you know the shadow is coming up, it is actively also going. This is like, literally for me, or there is a spiritual essence within that, or you know I'm going to draw from my surroundings in a way that can support my pain or support my grief or support my healing right now, but we've got to work for that. You know, a person can be sitting outside on the grass on their own and, you know, feeling incredibly isolated. And another person can be sitting out and having equally a hard time, but actually start to allow support in and that support being just the environment that's around them and starting to interact in a different way. And that support being just the environment that's around them and starting to interact in a different way.
Speaker 3:And and that's intentional, um, yeah, but yeah, addiction is an altered state. Yeah, and addiction is there to cope with, you know, the environment that person is in. I would say a lot of spiritual people are people who are highly sensitive or perceptive. They are most inclined to have addictive behaviors. One is because that they are seeking to feel that sense of union again with the unseen realm, or what's there behind the veil, both in shadow and light, and it's also to, yeah, often cope and escape with what has been in that world or is in that world.
Speaker 1:Yeah, is there like, maybe like an energetic difference? I mean, I know like there's a difference in like the way it makes you feel between like alcohol and like drug drugs, because I don't know why I always feel like, and maybe just because like alcohol is so like normalized in our society that it feels different like I know they're they're all altered states, but for some reason like drugs it feels a little bit more for me. I feel a little bit more out of control, maybe because I don't do it every single day, but like there's like a there. I guess there's almost a sense of like I know what I'm going to feel like when I drink, as opposed to like doing certain drugs unknown.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, they do all different things. Yeah, um, alcohol, for the most part, actually, you know, it's again so unique to each person and I would say super unique to where an individual is at in time. So it actually dims perception, it can bring about inhibition. You start to maybe start to get a little more loose, a little more expressive, um, and you can then bring up what has been sitting under the surface, potentially, um, or it will, you'll do the opposite and you'll just go into that like pleasure, but but it's, yeah, it's more in terms of psychically, it's actually a dimming of awareness. Whereas then different types of drugs, um, you know, gosh, we're gonna break it down they do different. They do different things. Yeah, like they stimulate or interact with your consciousness, and in different kinds of ways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I guess in the body in different ways too, yeah, yeah, I was going to say maybe a better like way to ask that question is like is there a certain like shadow that's drawn to like certain drugs or oh, like shadow, as in Like, maybe, like I feel so like alcohol, right, I feel like people tend to get more angry when they're on alcohol, right it's sourced, it's sort of like triggers, maybe the anger shadow as opposed to maybe.
Speaker 1:I mean, I don't know like psilocybin, right, like mushrooms tend to like I don. I don't know like psilocybin, right, like mushrooms tend to like. I don't know if that question makes sense, but like.
Speaker 3:No, it makes sense, like again, personally I'm just like I don't, like these are things that I would want to study. I don't know that I could sort of bring any information. It would be way I feel like I'm generalizing or I'd be saying something that would correct, because I could say alcohol for some people makes them highly emotional, yeah, but that all of this would be reflective, that's right. All of this would be reflective of you know that person's own, you know sort of ecosystem really. And I would say the same for drugs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you could say there are particular types of drugs you know that have certain effects. That has been you know sort of. You could say methamphetamines. They can get over a long period of time very angry or very like violent, aggressive it can lead to that but also very paranoid. You're now sort of you're essentially breaking your energetic field through. You know drugs or alcohol, if done in excess, and reflective of that individual's own unique energetic structure. So there are some people that have such like a like a strong constitution, you could say even energetically, that they can potentially handle a lot more of particular substances than a person who has a sort of more fine or refined field. But yeah, either way, you're ending up with some kind of yeah fractured consciousness ultimately.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I noticed at the end of like when I was drinking more heavily and I don't know if it's maybe simultaneously because I'm doing the work of like, when I was drinking more heavily and I don't know if it's maybe simultaneously because I'm doing the work of like, trying to connect more deeply, and but I would just notice like I felt like when I was drinking alcohol it would like put like like my skin would like tingle and I just felt like it was like this. It was like wrapping me into something that I couldn't feel outside of that. It was almost like like like ballooning my own energy within myself and I couldn't like connect with anything outside of that. And I like continued to feel that and it just felt like it started to feel uncomfortable where it's like I'm just I'm not sensing other people. I'm not, and I'm so used to, you know, in my sober state, or like walking around, like I'm used to sensing people. So it's like when you're in that, like cocoon almost. It was just an odd feeling and I only really noticed it, you know, at the end, and I'm sure that was just part of and I do drink every now and again. But now it's like why am I drinking Like I'm really intentional, I think, sort of like any drug, like that set and setting.
Speaker 1:It's like if I'm going out on a date or we're having you know wine, like I generally feel fine, right. But if I'm emotional and then I'm having a glass of wine or I can feel in my body, when my body's like not tonight, and if I go against that, I usually don't feel it could be one glass of wine and I'll still not feel great the next morning. So it's like really tuning into that. And it just started to feel like every single morning I would wake up after and I just felt awful. I was like this is not worth it, I don't like coming to work and just felt awful.
Speaker 1:I was like this is not worth it, I don't like coming to work, and then I would get anxious. But it's just like. That to me was really interesting, that sort of like energetic feeling. It was like the second skin that I could just feel was like trapping me, I guess, and that was more uncomfortable. I was like I don't, like I want to be able to feel outside of this, even though my emotions are so big and sometimes like like I don't know how to discern what's mine and what's not. I still want to be able to feel it, because that's just, I guess, a part of me yeah, you were talking about the desensitization of your etheric fields there.
Speaker 3:So that tingling and so now there's this sort of buffer between, like, the etheric field is what translates the information coming from the astral. So when you're sensing another person, that's actually coming through your astral body, into your etheric body and communicating information to you. Or when you are aware of yourself or of your thoughts, aware of your own feeling sensations, again that's coming from your own astral field, through your thoracic and alcohol and drugs. Again, like I'm sure there probably were times, like you say, it actually heightened you and now you can feel way more of your own emotions, like here is big, that it's now spilling over, kind of kind of thing. But yeah, when it brings that kind of um, numbing, tingly, um, captured energy, yeah it's the desensitization of your, your etheric, etheric field yeah and there's a in a like sort of this um like delay process.
Speaker 3:You know, it's where people, when they are drinking, can they have delayed responses to things, and drugs it's delayed. Delayed responses to things, yeah, but again, on drugs too, it can be the total opposite of that. It can be then almost like hyper reactivity, like really um a very, yeah, like reactive, um out of control state, so everything is like a complete bombardment of things uh senses, thoughts, feelings, but also what they may be in, you know, connecting to, in that astral, astral realm which you know.
Speaker 3:People can say that they're speaking, they're having, um, like a sort of delusional experience. They're speaking of feeling as though something is watching them, or feeling as though that there's some sort of things around them, unseen things around them, or getting those kind of creepy feelings. Yeah, that's reflective of them, where their consciousness, where that is now permeable to, because they are under the influence, but it's at a lower astral plane level, where they are aware of what is, uh, around them in a sense, but on a very material plane. We're kind of going um, that's not actually true, that's happening. You're delusional, um, yeah, when I'm doing it's, it's not, yeah yeah, so it's like kind of.
Speaker 1:Is it like like I guess like meeting us energetically, like if we're looking from the lens of like shadow right, if I'm drinking or if I'm doing drugs, like it's bringing those things up but like and I guess like even like defining like what drug is right, because it's like microdosing, like mushrooms. You know, I've done that for a couple years off and on and it's I never really feel the effects of it. It's just sort of working the know. I've done that for a couple of years off and on and it's I never really feel the effects of it. It's just sort of working the background and I've noticed my anxiety reducing. You know I haven't done a full on trip, though Right or, like you know, intentional ayahuasca, maybe like ceremonies, that's very intentional and maybe it's like, so it's like I don't.
Speaker 3:I guess it is that intention, you know, know behind why we're doing it, or I don't know, it's just an interesting for sure, for sure, the intention and then also the ownership of what you're working with, so you can go in and have this intention and be very intentional, be very thoughtful, go into a level of preparation around it, and yet our beingness knows what it is that we're actually first needing to look at or address.
Speaker 3:So if we've got this intention of again, if I just make it very sort of standard and generalized but I want to know my soul's purpose or what I'm here to do.
Speaker 3:My soul's purpose or what I'm here to do, what might actually come up is everything that is in like barrier or blockage that is preventing you from having that clear connection and stream and sense to it. So you might be very intentional and go I'm going to go into some kind of ceremony with this and then not have the experience of, oh, I was shown my life purpose or my soul's purpose, but instead you were shown the many layers of your own shadow and we can go that was bad or why did that happen, and you know that. That you know sort of trip experience was potentially really also traumatic. I would possibly definitely throw that in there, especially if a person was not prepared at all to be able to work with their own shadow, so it could also be very traumatic and then therefore unsafe in that regard. But yeah, like, definitely intention, but an intention isn't a means to control what it is that is needing to be revealed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and I guess, like, sometimes, when I've done anything, you know, not alcohol, but like, maybe, mushrooms, or you know, when I was younger, I did like, oh my gosh, mdma or things like that, right, I was younger did like, um, oh my gosh, mdma or things like that, right, where I think it was that fear of the unknown, right, like what is going to come up, right, cause we like knowing that their shadows, or I guess like, and I think, like holding that fear, like when I did ecstasy for the I was like 18 or 19, but I remember like I was so afraid of, like, what I was going to feel or how it was going to happen or what was going to, and we went to a rave, which I think is why, you know, when you're younger, you hear people, like with mushrooms, who've had really bad trips, and I think it's maybe because exactly that, like they just weren't in a state to experience what was coming up with.
Speaker 1:That you know, especially when you're in like these overstimulating environments, but yeah, I just remember this like extreme fear and then as soon as it hit, like I mean, like I threw up everywhere, I was like crying and then, after like all that passed. It was almost like I purged all that fear and then I had a great time, but it was like it was just like trap and stuck and it was just this fear of the unknown, right. And it's like you have to like move through that and and it's yeah, like you said, like not controlling. I wanted to know what was going to happen and know how I was going to feel and what it was going to look like. And you just don't know with drugs, right, and I think that can be part of that.
Speaker 3:I think that's the case with, you know, really coming to the point of choosing to live authentically or live from your soul and your spirit. It's the same thing when a person, when that is starting to call an individual and they're starting to increasingly feel like, you know, there is that inside truth and their inside expression and they're noticing more and more and more that everything in their external world is not that Like their friends, their lifestyle, their work. You know, it's like I don't even. None of this is actually the truth of me. So there's this very big distinction. There's always again, that unknown or that choice point what is external, what is created that is safe and you can justify it, you know, but I love these friends, or I love, you know, these elements, even though at the same time, when you're in connection and when you're doing those activities, you're sort of actually going. This is not right for me anymore and you keep feeling that great discomfort. It's again the unknown of being able to go okay, am I going to trust in, and what is that going to mean and what's going to unfold when you start to follow that in the guidance and any person who steps on to the I used to call it the soul train. You board the soul train, you are saying yes to your shadow being revealed.
Speaker 3:Um, people are often very shocked. You know, I thought it was going to be like this. Or you know, I've said I know that I'm following my truth, or I know that this is the right direction I'm meant to be going toward. But, at the same time, why is this so hard? Why are these challenges happening? Why is is all this pain coming up when we have been taught that, you know, following our heart or our soul, or you know, is again kind of a rosy experience. And it's not, it's just the truth, it's very much both. And if you do not want to see yourself or come to know yourself deeply, um, don't bother following, don't bother listening to the soul, just just continue with whatever you're doing realistically. Um, yeah, cause it is a big unknown experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can we go to like, maybe even like a higher level of shadow? Because it's like if, if shadow is, you know, repressed parts of ourselves or repressed emotions and things like that, and from a higher lens, where we're in the society, where I think we're conditioned to believe a lot of things, we're conditioned to think certain things are wrong or bad or we have to act this way or that way, then it's like there's obviously a higher agenda to like how we're supposed to behave and act. So it's like, if we're repressing parts of ourselves that actually, you know, and then finding that authenticity and facing those shadows which I feel like a majority of the shadows that we face aren't really anything like bad, right, it's just parts of us that maybe aren't accepted by society. So it's the rejected, the unloved, the things like that, and then we're trying to like embrace those parts of us. But then we're seen from the outside, as you know, selfish, ungrateful or whatever, just because we're, we're accepting these things that are not societally accepted.
Speaker 1:Then it's like, you know that higher, that higher, whatever it is that it's like, I don't know, it's like Pink Floyd, the wall right. We're like we're just supposed to act in accordance in a certain way, so it's. Then it's like I don't know, I guess it gets. I don't know I can like follow those conspiracy theories or, like you know, it's just interesting to me that there's such like a high agenda that we have no idea what it is Right. I mean does this make sense.
Speaker 3:Manipulation of consciousness? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. So it's like we have we're holding these shadows of things that really maybe aren't even shadows, it's just parts that we're not, that someone somewhere has, yeah, an agenda of like we're supposed to act a certain way to fall in line yeah, so I would probably best way.
Speaker 3:There's so many different ways to describe it and it starts to go back into our history and the history of, like, development of consciousness, evolution of human consciousness and the evolution of us. So stuff that we are processing as a collective now are things that have, you know, that occurred in earlier periods of time and so, you know, we could look at the suppression of the feminine or the dark feminine. We can say we've got, you know, the masculine elements of that, but it's, it's all of the beliefs and the what was appropriate consciousness for earlier periods of time, the way of relating to the world, like some of that, previous traumas, like we've got so many layers of um, unconscious or unprocessed streams of energy that we're working through and again, the best way probably to understand it is you, you know, I am 42, I can look back over the course of my life, you know, and we can go through the seven-year cycles, the seven-year cycles mirrored, or when we look at you know that sort of onion analogy and we can notice, oh, I'm working through that theme again, it's that theme again and we can know that, wow, many times over the course of our life it's coming up here. We're peeling back that onion layer, we're continuing to work through that. That's the same with humanity.
Speaker 3:So there are things that have occurred in our near and distant past, going back a very long time right to you know, like Lemuria, atlantis, the post post-atlantean epochs, so periods of india and egypt and persia, um, the greco-roman and all of these things of different states of consciousness where we rose and fell. So when we're rising, you know, and then anything, when we fall, there is always excess. There is always where things go into, you know, darkness, or go into degradation, and so that there are beliefs or there are habits uh so or rituals, processes, that when we go into excess with anything, it starts to get pretty dysfunctional and dark, which is a normal process, just as, even if you described when you, you know, dabbling, playingabbling, playing, this is fun to, okay, this is normal to, this is not right, this is uncomfortable. Now, this is very uncomfortable and perhaps a few little extreme experiences when you lost control, whatever that may have looked like for you and me I'm not outside of that, I think most people, wherever it is that you experience that in your life, that's a normal process, right. So we've done that as well to get to where we are now, which is the first cultural epoch of post-Atlantis.
Speaker 3:So we've got a lot of history behind us, a lot of history, and you know, I have like more perhaps a, an esoteric, foundational understanding of the planets where you, we, would probably meet and match but have different perspectives. But the moon is hugely connected again to our subconscious and unconscious and the moon has been a part of earth and the moon is part of all of our own psyches. So you've got those elements. Now you've got to understand that man is a hierarchy. On the kingdom of earth we have got three kingdoms below us, but then we have kingdoms above us and so we're sort of in in this middle realm where you say we're belonging then to two worlds. So just as we can structure the earth you know from, say, mineral, plant, animal, then there are the higher hierarchies of the heavenly world and not again, if I use the term, even Lucifer I'm not coming from a like a biblical, religious, dogmatic religion perspective here but the fall of Lucifer, this has catalyzed our development of consciousness, but at the same time it's with all of the darkness, all of the dark beings, the luciferic beings, that have come with that and that is real. And here it's where I can bring up. We can notice how materialized our consciousness is. It is the material plane. That's hard. Isn't that a concept? Isn't that just an archetype? That's just a archetype. Is that's just a religious term? That's just a story. You know, I know it's, it's not and um, it's interesting even for me to say that so clearly now, whilst also wanting to be very respectful of where people are at um, because we all take our own journeys to being able to really decondition our mind and start to understand that we are living within a much greater reality and we are interacting with that at all times.
Speaker 3:People like spooky stories. They don't want to have spooky experiences, but everyone's generally like oh right, tell me a spooky story, tell me of some shadow, tell me of some darkness. Have you seen any scary things? And I think most people through the course of their life, have gone into places and just, oh, I feel the heebie-jeebies there, something was really off there. And they know it's of a spiritual nature, even if, at the same time, they don't believe in any of that stuff at all. And they'll tell you that I don't believe in any of that stuff, but something that was also creepy and they can't quite reconcile it. But again, what you're talking about now is then the higher heavens or that heavenly realm. So you've also got those aramonic, which is that descending, materializing. It wants to draw us down into the material plane, it wants to have us disconnected from our spirit, whereas Lucifer wants us so high out of our bodies, so caught up in bloody sex, magic and you know drugs into altered states and you know extremism and appearances. It's that.
Speaker 3:So you want to then bring in, say, mkultra or manipulation, and what it is doing is really often in two senses of the sort of perspective. Firstly, it's going to utilize like luciferic energies in terms of chaos, so it's going to create chaotic, you know global, chaotic situations. It's going to really stimulate a person into heightened feeling, emotion, reactivity, like very discombobulating, very yeah, just disorientating. There I cannot find my orientation at all, and this is allowing a person then to sort of be in a very vulnerable position. That then there is control inserted and that will often be of some kind of aromantic nature. So here is the control, here is the system's hand over your power and we will tell you what to do, and then you're starting to become a little bit more roboticized in that way and you can like you. Just you have to look at the pretty much most industries. But music industry, or when there's big events, they're global satanic rituals and so it's done with.
Speaker 3:Here is this you know famous person singer, you know it's in movies, like there is so much predictive programming or any time you're entering into witnessing or watching something that is classified as sort of entertainment, there's been all this grooming of the mind and you're moving into an altered state. So when you are watching an event and there is this performance and it is a song, the song itself connects into a particular, it starts to attune you and entrain you into a certain kind of vibrational energetic state. And then there is a performative element of ritual that will be going on and you are drawing in like mass levels of consciousness, people's energies, people's you know, sort of. You are entraining them and entrancing them. There is this like enchantment or entrancement that is occurring and it's everywhere. It's everywhere social media or just apps, and again, here is that aramonic.
Speaker 3:We can now barely use our own will to be able to have a level of self-control. We are trying to escape our lives or are so unpresent by chasing that, like the dopamine hit. So everything that we're talking about also has a like anatomical or physiological response to our body, and it's one of the things increasingly I'm fascinated in just more stuff I'll probably never get to do because I would need lots of money to be able to research and have a whole heap of scientists that want to be on board with me. But there is massive amounts of correlation between the stimulation, like I see it in the readings I do, when we have stuff in our energy field. It influences the chemical biology and hormone biology like processes in our, in our body, which then influences the health of our body, the way our, our anatomy functions or the way our brain functions.
Speaker 3:Like you know, directing people who perhaps aren't aware or haven't had the opportunity based on their own personal resources or means or the safety of their own environment, for lots of different reasons, into a devoidism. It's a devoidism. It's addiction to like feeling good, reducing a our um ability to be able to focus, our ability to be able to use our mind. Everything is increasingly becoming automated um and in that there is this state of no longer knowing who it is, that we are um, feeling this sort of like. It's a significant degradation and this is because of the more spiritual influences.
Speaker 3:So we think of it being, you know, a baddie, human, baddie, humans at the top, which it is. But it's also because they are also heavily, um, uh, influenced by the unseen hierarchies of different beings, different energies, different states of consciousness. And the last thing I would say there is, whoever these people are at the top, they are like recapitulations of people who are coming back into reincarnation, reflective of, you know, atlantean periods of time. So their karma and what they are, you know sort of battling with within themselves or living out, has got a lot to do with other pretty significant change of consciousness time. So we're right on the cusp in some ways. They'll say age of Aquarius. I think that's a couple more thousand, couple more thousands of years away when we fully go over. But we're definitely and I know that's astrology says something different.
Speaker 3:I'm open to all of it. I'm not like hard, this is it, but, um, we are in a change of times, a transitionary season. So this is where the veils are also thinner but where consciousness itself can be, you know, most influenced and directed and where we're going to see quite significant and extraordinary changes, for both good and kind of bad, I suppose, or degradation, um reflective of how susceptible we are to the pressures that that we're coming up against. And all of this is each for our own individual, so our own personal evolution as well. So we can go, oh my God. Well, why this is bad and I hate these people. You know you wouldn't be born in this time if you weren't for this time. And yeah, it's really about, I would say then, education Again, why I feel so passionate about wanting to get people to like spirituality is shadow.
Speaker 3:You know it might be more and more popular but it's still relegated. People aren't taking it seriously. Nobody actually really wants to deeply recognize. This is what the reality of what I'm actually in and living in you know, and that's someone who might be intrigued. You know it's also I just call it sometimes spiritual cocaine, getting high for some people, because when you really start to actually understand the structure or the nature of the reality of what we're in, it's actually incredibly empowering and you can start to go right. This is what's going on in this period of time and it's not just the baddies at the top, the sort of deep state, and it goes beyond that. But it goes beyond that not so that your persecutor is happening to you. You can start to put it in a much bigger developmental scheme of of what's what's occurring.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think spirituality is definitely a lot harder than people think in the beginning. You know, I think it's like oh, I'll meditate for a little while and I'll just like see God or something you know.
Speaker 1:but it is like you said, there is so much shadow to it, like it would be so easy to just go back to whatever, but sort of like, yeah, when you see it and I know that there's so much that I still don't even see and even like the things that I do, like I'm more, I feel, like I'm more aware of, even that can like really fuck with your mind sometimes, where I'm like what is actually happening right now, like I don't know For sure, yeah for sure.
Speaker 3:And even when it comes to mental health or just caring for, like I, I, I thought that I was schizophrenic. I, I had a massive experience when I was. I had a massive experience when I was. So my I would have always had psychic experiences. They started to really heighten again through the natural kind of ebb and flow cycles through my teens, but very much from probably when I was 11. I grew up in a relatively religious household. I grew up in a relatively religious household and so having these more psychic experiences was confronting, at least to my stepmom or concerning. You know, I was involved in youth group and, you know, go to church and yet was having these experiences as well. So you know that's got all that kind of demonization attached to it and needing to try and work that out for myself. But I would have been 21 and was having again another sort of psychic expansion you could maybe call it a period of heightened awareness or activity and I went to the shopping centre and just every person I went past it was like downloading a movie of their story and all their energy and their emotion. And I came out and I just cried. Am I going crazy? I'm worried. I'm sort of like some sort of like what's happening? Am I having a psychotic break of some kind? No, I'm just very intuitive, very psychic. So I think there's lots of people that are very heightened, very intuitive and that go through periods of time of greater awareness that haven't had any education sort of mainstream healthcare systems, don't have any knowledge of any of this and they're pathologized and they're put on medication or they're made to feel like they're crazy, or they're taught that these experiences that they're having aren't actually real. Um, when they are, and you know that that's, I think, very damaging, um, very disempowering and can really set a person up for, you know, again, depending on their own individual nature, a lot of difficulty or challenge. That was unnecessary if that was supported. Um, and then, yeah, just how we care for people in general with different types of mental health, um, again, the mainstream system does not include or recognize potential shadow influences. That and every person has it, every person, every person.
Speaker 3:You don't want to talk about entities, but it's like, oh, I haven't had that, or like every person has, it's normal, it's a part of our own process and evolution. When you start to go down into certain qualities of thoughts, when you're going into a dark you know dark night of the soul or your own shadow is coming up. There are even just low-lying entities that can be housed and homed in your own field because of the environment, quality of energy that you've got've got going on. But a person who has experienced potentially very traumatic events has then gone into sort of some kind of coping mechanism of drugs or alcohol and taken that to a place, potentially also hanging out with people or going to environments of great exposure when they're in a very vulnerable state let's say they are vulnerable in their own sort of mental and emotional well-being and then under the influence and then in an environment where you've got you know lots of different things potentially going on, yeah, you can pick up things that then influence your wellbeing.
Speaker 3:That again, it's not something that I think we're failing. I think we're failing a lot and for people who really suffer with mental health and are hospitalized and I'm not saying this is the case for all of them, but the fact that we do not include very much any longer. So you think back, using a religious paradigm, there was the awareness of demonic possession or possession or entity influence. This was normal, this. There was a lot of education and training and there was this understanding of these higher, higher realms and worlds and that that was processes, not to say that that didn't go into excess and wonky places, okay, you know, but we don't even include that in our paradigm of awareness at all anymore and I think that's silly, very silly, foolish and again harmful for that individual who's suffering in a particular way. Yeah, so it's a. It's an interesting.
Speaker 1:Well, it's an interesting world we live in it is, and I mean with the mental health I have recent and I'm not going to get too deep into the story because it's not like mine to tell but my daughter has been going through, you know, group therapy and things like that and it's very much, this is your diagnosis, this is your label now. And then, well, we have to do this, we have to do that, and they push the medications. She, you know, had a hard time sleeping. So they're like, well, we need to put her on this. And I'm like, no, we're going to try probiotics and magnesium first and going for walks, Right, Like that, because that's just for me very grounding and and I'm been open to trying alternatives, but I want to try holistic remedies first.
Speaker 1:Or she's always, you know, through astrology. I've always seen her chart. I've always known she has mean, we all have massive spiritual potential, but it's very much in her chart the depth and sensitivities that she has. I've known that, like since I've seen her chart. But she and she's always seen spirits, shadows, whatever you want to call it. Ever since she was like six months old, she would wave at things, she talked to things, she would bring food into the closet for boys that were there that nobody could see. You know, like, she's always like, and I've never once been like that's weird. Stop doing that. You know, I've just been like oh what do you see? Or like, even if it freaked me out, I wouldn't let her know, you know it just be like what's going on there?
Speaker 1:And then in the house that we're currently in, she sees these shadows and I asked her to describe them. She's like they're really, really tall, and she went into one of these sessions and described a shadow that she had seen. And then I got the phone call that they wanted to start on antipsychotic medication. Right, it's that automatic trigger of like well, you have something seriously wrong with you. And I resisted that and I think, being a parent in this system with maybe a little bit more awareness and acceptance of the spiritual side of things, to look at a doctor and say no is so hard. Right, cause you have all those things of like well, but they're a doctor, they maybe they do know better than me and if I don't get put on this medication, is that going to make her? There's so much that goes into that. But I just have like tap in and trust myself and have those honest conversation with her about, like what she wants to do. But I'm like, just because in my eyes she sees. And then we got a different doctor and I spoke to her and I was like, listen, I'm very you know, I'm spiritual and I think that that's what's going on. And she's like oh, I'm spiritual too and I completely, and so it was a breath of fresh air to actually have somebody in the medical system that we were able to connect with. That's on, that she's good. But that, I think, was maybe energetically we attracted that or something, but I don't think that's super common.
Speaker 1:And, like you said, there's this element that I think is missing in a lot of healthcare the spiritual side of things, that why can't we be seeing ghosts? Why does that have to be medicated? Why do we have to be in inpatient facilities? Because we've had these experiences that people don't understand and, yeah, I think that we're not supported within that system. And I think, just being like when she first came home and said, well, they diagnosed me with this, I said over and over, I said you're experiencing that right now.
Speaker 1:It's not who you are, and I want to be very clear about that. It's okay to feel depression or sadness or whatever, but that's not who you are, and I want to be very clear about that. You know, it's okay to feel depression or sadness or whatever, but that's not who you are. Don't define yourself by that. It's very easy to be like well, I'm this.
Speaker 1:The doctor said that, and then a whole lifetime of medication instead of doing the work. You know, and I think it's it is. It is heartbreaking that there's so many children, and I think not to say that, you know, not to say that children like that haven't come through in you know older generations, but I think there's a lot more of them coming through now and maybe that's why you know a lot more people are seemingly on the spiritual path, or it's becoming something that's more talked about, or maybe I'm just, you know, that's sort of like my reality and I'm seeing more of that. I don't know, but you know it's just. Yeah, it's such a disservice to just the human being that we're not.
Speaker 1:you know, I don't know and I don't know what that distinction between people who really need to be in there, like have you seen the Joker, the Joaquin Phoenix Joker movie? Yes, I have that one, I was, so I don't even know. I watched that like three times in a theater Cause I just felt like I could have muted that show, the whole movie. I could have muted it and just been like equally as drawn in. But it's like that progression of that, the whole mental health system right in there, where it's like he was on like 15 different pills and then you need to take this to sleep and this that it just really messes with your mind, because then it's like, what's your reality like? Even watching the movie, you're confused because you're like wait, what's real? Like what is he actually experiencing and what isn't he experiencing, and I can't imagine being in that reality. How scary and confusing that is to not even know what's real and what's not right.
Speaker 1:yeah, so I don't know, I don't know what, like you know and I you know, I think a lot of that does come from probably unprecedented trauma, you know and and and the system and you know I don't know what, what if somebody's just born into that or I don't know. It's just, it's kind of not confusing, but it's like, how do you get to that stage, as opposed to like maybe taking another path of of dealing with and where does it from maybe just being very spiritual or psychic or seeing things right, to then being the other extreme of just being like hospitalized because you're seeing ghosts? I don't know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, I mean you get to see people's charts. I just, I mean I don't need to, but when I think about all of that, you know there are some people where sometimes it's exactly the path. You know that there is, you know, and again, here is where we can sort of. I'm not saying this is the case for everybody, but there are sometimes roles that we are to play in a particular lifetime, or experiences and paths, but, moment, you know that it's not wrong for us to go down, but from the outside it can really appear a certain way when in fact that's actually the appropriate path in this lifetime. But again, yeah, that it's exactly as you say it and I'm going to go what is actually real or not real?
Speaker 3:We could say the same thing in regards to where we're at collectively, you know, in the world, like what is actually going on right now. Because when you go back to you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, you know 2000, to the 90s, to the 80s, to you know, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, you know 2000, to the nineties, to the eighties, to you know, we can see there has been this massive shift in terms of like reality, things coming more and more things coming to the surface collectively, but also so much becoming far more disintegrated and broken down on, like what is actually real, what is actually true now, and you know, um, it's really where each of us are now being called to define. Define that within greater parameters, I would. I would say um, but yeah, yeah, it makes it all a little bit bonkers it does, I know, and I think about that too.
Speaker 1:It's like I, even from the lens of manifestation, or like I'm creating my own reality, and I truly do believe that we all are right. Like I think sometimes you can think about, or at least my mind can go so deep down that hole sometimes, where it's like, okay, like I'm talking to you right now, right, and then I mean I think science even proved, like what was that? Um, the, the cat experiment, right. Where it's like, okay, like I'm talking to you right now, right, and then I mean I think science has improved. Like what was that?
Speaker 1:The, the cat experiment, right, where it's like, is the cat dead or is the cat alive? They put it in a box and you actually don't know if it's dead or alive, it's both. You know what I mean. And so, like, sometimes it's like we're having this conversation, but when we hang up and we're not in each, it's just like a weird thing. I'm like you know, I know that you exist, I see you, but then when I don't see you, it's like you're both there and you're not, and same with me Right.
Speaker 1:So it's just like this, really interesting. You can just, it can get you spinning, sometimes Right when I'm like, yes, when this person isn't schrodinger's experiment, I don't know, I don't, I don't know that experiment.
Speaker 3:No, I'm gonna have to look it up yeah yeah, exactly talking about yeah, sure, so yeah, no, but it's also, then, you know, our daily experience within ourselves. It's a reality, this is what the reality, this is what's known, but here is what's unknown. Is that here? Is that not here? I've had that, you know.
Speaker 1:There's this questioning of even our own experience, or they can be at least, depending on where we're at, yeah, but I think that also helps me sometimes dealing with you know, whether it's shadow or just my authentic self, because it's sometimes. I I guess like there's all. There's sometimes a fear of like, what are you going to think about it? Or if I have to do something that's going to upset somebody else, then I think it helps me zoom back a little bit where it's like okay, this is my reality, I'm the only one that when I go to bed at night, I'm the only one in here, right, so it's like I actually don't have to, I'm not responsible for whatever is happening. You know, after we part ways, that's not my responsibility and I think you know, as long as I'm not harming anybody, you know, then that's never my intention, but it just it helps me actually be more authentic because I can check in with myself and be like okay, if I do this thing, you know, I can kind of like look at it from that lens where it's like, when we part ways, you go your way, you're going to be fine really, and I think that's.
Speaker 1:I try and explain that to my daughter a lot of times. She gets really worried about what people think about her and I'm, like you know, in the most loving way possible, people don't care about you like that. They really don't. They go on living their life. They go on complaining about something else. They go on find some other drama and you're here upset, you're holding on to it and you know, even if they do for a day like they'll get over it, it's just like anything in the media, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, we're all policing each other. There's that kind of and that's really going back to a collective sort of conditioning, that is a form of control. Um, it's that censorship, censorship or self-censorship that gets pushed down upon us around. Here are the rules, this is what is acceptable, this is not acceptable. And then we all police each other to stay within that balance, regardless of whether what we're policing each other on is actually right or not. You know, covid was a great, great example of that huge and great example of that. They didn't have to do much other than pit each other against each other and create a lot of division and um link things as to here is the moral high ground and here is the people who are who are not.
Speaker 1:And then, you know, everybody just really policed one another yeah, yeah, I think it's important to question everything, like, like, even even with this most recent election. First of all, I don't watch the news. I refuse to watch it anymore because I'm like, but I also think, whenever you hear so much against one or the other, I think there's always an underlying agenda there. So it's always like just being curious. Okay, like, why am I following this? Or why am I believing this?
Speaker 1:Or, like you know, and in the media is so much, it's so easy to like clip things and falsify things and put things out, and I think, unless you actually have the source, like, like, yeah, and I don't know, like I I worked with myself in a way that I was not upset either way of what happened, right, and then I almost like gaslit myself because I went on social media and everybody was upset and like saying all these things. I was like, whoa, am I like wrong for not being that upset right now? And I just had to like trust myself, you know, and kind of that. Like I'm, I'm creating my reality, my experience, and I think there's a lot out there that's trying to get us to do certain things and fall in line, and it's like the massive psyops the massive psyops.
Speaker 3:Yeah it, massive psyops, huge it's again. Mkultra never went away. Yeah, mkultra never went away. They just took it from being able to use in a small kind of group of peoples or peoples for a period of time, got what they needed and started to roll it out at an even more collective level. When it comes to any government, it's the dark forces like. It's not these.
Speaker 3:I mean sure there are impulses that would be the best way to describe it but they are working with both sides. But they are working with both sides. You know like there is going to be influencing factors that are occurring within. You know any party. You know whether it's your guys' political system or ours. It's just the nature of it. Yeah, and again why I think it's. We just need nature of it. Yeah, and again why.
Speaker 3:I think we just need to be aware, we need to have the information, and it's where I would say it's good to know the impulses. It's good to know the impulses and starting to learn like what is a more luciferic impulse, what sort of defines and describes that? And you start to get a sense of it. You start to get a sense of it in yourself, that, and you start to get a sense of it. You start to get a sense of it in yourself, then you start to notice it in others, you start to notice in society. Okay, this is actually really helpful. Now I can know what I'm dealing with here. And then you start to know the other and you start to notice it in yourself or in others and in society.
Speaker 3:Right now I can know because these, see, these two forces are ultimately initiating forces. You know, you fall onto one side, you're going to lose yourself. You fall to your other side, you're going to use yourself, you identify both and you take that middle path and you walk in that, in that light. Essentially, then, these, these shadow elements, or these impulses, are going to be initiating you. You're going to be able to, you know, develop and innovate for yourself, or transmute, transform for yourself and for us as collective, in a way that is very, um, potent. But either side is sort of battling. You could say these impulses, again, they're battling in these beings, they're battling for you know that our for us to give ourselves to them, for us, you know, for them to have that power and control.
Speaker 1:Um yeah, yeah, I really like that distinction between those two and it almost seems like there were points where you were describing them or talking about them. It almost seems like that luciferic like that, like distraction is almost just like a tool of the Aramaic one.
Speaker 3:Technology again is really a great example. So you hop on your phone, you're scrolling dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, dopamine, disassociation, disassociation coming out. At the same time, we're losing our sense of self, we're becoming more of a shell. We're actually starting to get more hardened or more devoid and more materialized. So they're buddies, they can totally work together, okay, but they're totally different factions as well.
Speaker 3:So transhumanism is super, um, um, the aramonic force, you know, and going into mass control, you know smart cities or whatever they call them. You, you know, like, creating earth increasingly becoming like commodified and technologised and everything increasingly becoming unnatural. Our foods, our farming, like everything we do. That's the aromantic force, and all sold to us is, you know, this is better and you know is better. And you know, have the chip implant or have the sunnies where you can access, like anything, and you don't ever need to learn anything. You're now actually no longer living from or your soul and your spirit, and you're a live consciousness. You're just a computing system that can do the thing right. Yeah, and then you've got the Luciferic, which is, you know, you're bringing in gender issues, you're bringing in sex issues, you're bringing in like very, it's the Luciferic. Is the fall of lucifer occurred in lemaria. Lemaria or it was the old moon period, but lemaria, I'm pretty sure it was yeah, the fall, which is garden of eden, and that was a matriarchal period of time, and so that links into, like the desires and feminine sex, like that whole stream, which is where you start to see that in the world or in yourself, you know, losing oneself in pleasure, or a lot of delusion too, mass amounts of delusion, yeah, and we all have both elements within ourselves and there's no shame in that. It's really far more around how you can identify it and explore yourself through it and be able to see it in behaviors or choices, or be able to see it in the world.
Speaker 3:Because this period of time is, we're in a period of time when needing to clearly discern and get clear on what is good and evil, and that we can say that from a very righteous place, um, or an uneducated place to some degree, but like when you start to delve into it, like people could go, I definitely know what's the difference between good and evil. But then we've got things that are being sold as progressive or really innovative and you know it's like they're presented and in this sort of gold wrapping, and yet what? Where that may take us? No, that isn't necessarily then good, and we have to be able to have enough education and sort of forethought to sort of go hang on.
Speaker 3:Where are these streams ultimately going to lead us, like this? I mean, I don't know. I'm going to take things very controversial, but this is what is a woman? Like questions like that, or what is gender, and all these different and I'm not, you know, I'm not having a personal anything against a person and how they want to identify it, but it is alarming when there wants to be so much breakdown of something that is also very, um, anatomically, um, what it is yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I didn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I can, yeah, no, I know it's it's like it feels, I mean, talk about shadow, right, because I'm like what it's like? What can you say about it and what, what are we not supposed to say about it? You know, because I honestly like asked my daughter out of just curiosity, right, I'm, you know she's gone through her phases of you know, like two, three years ago she was wanted to be called a he and then now she, then she was liked girls and now she's, you know, so she's gone through her own thing, and then so I asked her. I was like, what I was like, can you explain to me, like the plural, like the they, them, I honestly don't understand. Like that, what, what, that was the word I'm looking for, like the pronoun, I guess I just don't really understand, just out of a curiosity space, but it's like she didn't really have an answer, but I don't know, it's just interesting and I think, even like, coming back to that, like what astrologers are calling age of Aquarius, or technology or anything like that, it is, like you said, really discerning and I think that's what this time is, like Pluto moving into Aquarius, right, it's really bringing us down to the darkness and the depth of like, okay, what does this stuff actually mean what is for our good, what is not right. And I think that's what this Pluto time is and why it's so impactful, because there's a lot of technologies, like you said, the whole chip in the brain, and it's Nikola Tesla when he said the secrets of the universe are in frequency, vibration and energy.
Speaker 1:Right, and it's like even relating to food, like the food that we're putting in our body is frequency, it is impacting us and I'm, you know, I'm so like, I get so heated about like our food sources and what we're putting in, because it's we are consuming and it is changing us on such a cellular level and we're consuming such a high process like awful, like sugary, and it just allows us, I guess, to stay in this state of just not like unawareness. We're sick, we're just angry, we're all these things. And I mean even going back to politics, like I don't know like, but you know, with RFK and the food, his attempt like I don't know like, but you know, with RFK and the food, his attempt at reform, which you know, who knows what will happen. But that is the only thing that kind of excites me a little bit is I'm like, if we can sort of change the ingredients that are in our food, then all these other bullshit issues that everybody's arguing. It's just going to be almost like a no brainer If we can get ourselves a little bit more healthy and a little bit more like individuated and like, oh wow, like I actually know what it feels like to feel good now, or maybe I don't need to be on this medication, you know, and and I know that there's a larger agenda of you know big pharma and you know all those things.
Speaker 1:So it's a big task, but it's like, even if we can bring awareness a little bit to what we're putting on our body, you know, to know that.
Speaker 1:You know these kids cereals are like poisoning our children.
Speaker 1:And we're just right now it's like I mean, I'm I'm not perfect by any means, right, but like I really have done a lot of like research on food and I've always been very aware of like how it's made me feel and so like we don't have cereal in our house, like we don't have, I mean, my kids still have Halloween candy and my son, even tonight he's like, can I don't want it to be like an everyday thing, right, but there, you know, I don't know, it's just when we're not in tune with our body when we just always feel like shit.
Speaker 1:We don't know what that baseline feels like, you know it's like. I think that's the one thing that's helped me get in tune with my emotions and my body and feeling. What feels good is being able to and I still I'll have a little chocolate peanut butter thing, you know like every now and again cause it. Just it tastes good, you know. But I try and at least like know that the peanut butter is just peanut butter, there's not peanut butter and sugar and I just try and get the cleanest that I can. But you know you can only do so much in a country that everything is impacted in some way.
Speaker 1:It's like I would go to the store and you're buying strawberries. My kids would throw strawberries in the cart and it wasn't organic. But then the non-organic. I mean it's crazy how many chemicals and things are just in a fruit and it's overwhelming because even that has so much impact on everything. Their performance at school and school is a whole other thing. It's overwhelming because even that has so much impact on everything. You know like their performance at school and school is a whole other thing.
Speaker 1:I'm like I am struggling with school now because I'm like this is just not the place for most kids. Like how do you deal with the school system? In a way that's like like they'll you know about focus, or they don't want to do these things, they don't want to sit and do math, and I'm kind of like at the end of the day I want to write them back and be like I don't care. And it's not that I don't care, but it's just not. I'm not going to yell at my kids or shame them or make them feel less than because they don't want to do it in math, I just I don't. They're going to find their creativity. My daughter just decided she wanted to do criminal psychology. So now she's like well, mom, I have to, like do better at school. So now she's applying herself a little bit more because she's found something that's called her Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's like I wish I even looked at, like the Waldorf schools, like the online ones, cause I was like, can I do this, like is there a way that I could do it at home with them? And it's just, you know, society makes it hard because you know, all alone, like I don't have the ability to homeschool them in that way. Um, yeah, but even somebody sent me a, a clip from something that I don't know what book it is and maybe you know the reference, but it was Rudolf Steiner, and he had said, obviously when he was alive, but he was like there's going to become a point in time where we're vaccinating our children and we're detaching them from their spirituality and I was like that's literally what's happening, literally, and so yeah, exactly, and then that was the question if anybody is is shows that, okay, we've got to learn actually what what that actually then means and how that works with us in that spiritual science way, because that can still go.
Speaker 3:Yes, you could feel the resonance of that or the truth of that when you read it, but then also, what does that actually mean? It's also telling me that there's something, something more there. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:You can see where it's like we are only aware of so much and that the more that we would then learn here, the better that we're going to be able to influence or rebuild or recreate the certain kinds of like structures of how we educate or how we eat and how we yeah yeah, well, even even with the vaccines I think that's another thing with rfk, he's talked a lot about he's done a lot of research on vaccines and you know, and he's gotten a lot of pushback and a lot of um, I guess, yeah, just negative things about you know, coming out and being like these certain vaccines are causing autism or this, that and the other thing you know, and I think, I think if I, if I did ever have another child, I would view a lot of things very differently.
Speaker 1:And it does make you an outsider, right, if you choose not to vaccinate your children, like everybody knows who you are, you know, as, like people, just it's just, you're being different, I don't know, it's just it's. It's interesting and there's so much to it and I do think you know it comes. There are, you know, life-saving things, of course, that are so beautiful in what they do, but there's a lot of things that I think are so unnecessary and we're just blindly following, you know, and doing it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, bullied into things or again, things becoming very inconvenient, so making it therefore challenging. So, yeah, I was not a vaccinator, I did not vaccinate my children, and that was like 20 years ago. That was more unheard of back then and a lot of questions, a lot of pushback, and you know there's a lot of sacrifices that then has come with that in some regards. You know, are you going to be allowed into school or are you going to be allowed into? You know, um, child care care? Um, here are all the penalties for not agreeing, um, here is reduction and any kind of um support, basically because you're not.
Speaker 3:And then you've got, yes, the kind of persecution of potential family members or friends, or, yeah, you, you, I mean it's a great experience, but at the same time it comes at a cost, or you have to be willing to strengthen some, something, you have to face your own shadow. That's all that really really does. And you have to be able and you learn the expression of other people's shadow, and that's saying that my way, or my choice, was the right choice. I have nothing against people if they want to vaccinate, or how they have to, or want to, or wish to educate or what they believe in. That's completely your prerogative and I will respect that, but it's not to push your views onto mine or mine onto yours, and it's being able to have that choice rather than the persecution or ostracisation condemning.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you get to really see and learn shadow, yeah, you know, in all of those regards yeah, yeah, because that takes a lot to stay firm with your decision in the face of all that.
Speaker 3:It's a lot of pressure yeah, but I mean, I, I don't, I don't know why I'm like that. I chose not to go on the pill either. I'm 18, yeah, and sort of flipped out my family, and then it was being told all these things and made to feel rubbish and wrong. And I remember when all the evidence started coming out around the effects of the pill and, yeah, I was in my 30s, I think I might have been like 34, 35, and there was lots and lots more evidence and, oh my goodness, it was so like relieving and empowering because I got so. I was made to feel like I'm just so rotten and so wrong and so reckless and such an idiot, like such a dummy and like what kind of thinking You're off with the fairies, like layers of projection, and I just knew and I was like no, it's not right for me. I just know, just stick to it, stick to it when all approved.
Speaker 3:I'm like huh see, and I didn't go out and do that, but that's how I felt. Yeah, I felt oh, relieved, validated and pleased that I stuck to my guns and yeah, I mean, it's just everybody's journey. It's just everybody's journey. It doesn't matter when you come to your own realisations or discoveries, and that's the point, like it's the evolution of something, something that I thought was really right. I now come to a point of going. Whoa, didn't see that? Like you know, it's just yeah, how, how we, how we grow yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I know I was gonna. My, like wrapping up question was sort of be like how do we like, how do we work with our shadow and how do we move through it? And I know what my process has been and I think we've touched on it. You know, within this podcast and, like you just said, everybody has their own journey of when they're going to experience it and when not. And I think it's I don't know, it is challenging and it's confusing for a while, but there are things like I don't even know.
Speaker 1:Today there was a conversation I was almost avoiding having and for me now, when I feel that way, I challenge myself to do it Because I think that's how you're overcoming those shadows right. It's all those little voices inside that are just like, oh my gosh, you're going to be rejected, they're going to get mad at you, this is a stupid, you don't need to do this. But then, every single time I listen to that voice, I get home and it's like, oh, you should have just done it. Why were you afraid? You know what I mean? It's this battle, internal battle.
Speaker 3:And so I just try, and I don't know now, I just try and push myself to like what you know, like, well, it's the honoring of yourself, that's the honor of yourself. So when you listen to those voices and you don't do it, you're betraying yourself, abandoning, yeah, and it's harming you. And so it's kind of going no, like I want to like, I value me, I love who I am. I'm increasingly falling in love with who I am. You know, I'm really getting to know the kind of person I am and how I care, and I'm going to represent that. And so I'm going to come out and have those challenging conversations or be very honest or transparent, and you know how they respond.
Speaker 3:You know is beyond my control, but I can kind of know. I ideally approach that in the best manner. I've worded things, I express myself truthfully and I honoured myself in that way. Yeah, because, yeah, those shadows are really that is, the almost like the conditioning and programming and control mechanisms and quality of energy, certain kind of vibrational state that we're accustomed to, and so that will get very loud in order to sort of keep us with what is comfortable and yet uncomfortable to our soul and spirit yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:I think that's been a huge. It's like I said, that discomfort of of, yeah, not listening to yourself and continually abandon yourself. It's like then you're just like who am I? You know, it's like I don't know even my daughter trying to navigate all of this. You know, I always tell her I'm like, you know, I love myself, I've learned to love myself, but I don't like myself every single moment of every day, right, Like there are moments where maybe I'll hear that voice of like, don't do that, and I don't do it, and then I'm like, oh, like, oh, I get so mad at myself, right, but then I can also witness that and just let it go and be like okay, I'll have another opportunity, because that's the way it works. There's always going to be a new time to like, move through that. This isn't like the end all be all, just because I didn't do it this one time, Right, and and so it's just, I don't know it.
Speaker 3:It is, it is confusing, but it is empowering and um it's a yeah, it's a lifelong, it's a lifelong journey, I think.
Speaker 1:Lifetimes. I feel like what was that Sorry?
Speaker 3:Lifetimes, oh, a hundred percent. Lifetimes, yeah, lifetimes, yeah, lifetimes upon, lifetimes, upon, for sure, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what we do in this lifetime influences our next. Yeah, we're literally working upon our astral and spirit bodies, so our soul bodies and spirit bodies, and that's what we pick up when we come back down and come back through going through the gates of death. We slowly relieve the layers of our bodies through these planetary planes, essentially, or heavenly planes, and then on the dissension journey that takes a long process, and on the incarnational journey, we then, you know, have re-refined ourselves in some regards, but also pick up our kind of little packages that we left on each plane that then influence how we are in the next life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I don't, yeah, there's, there's, there's so much. So much yeah, but. I think this conversation has been really really deep and beautiful and I think, um, yeah, I don't know, is there? Was there anything that we didn't talk about, that you really wanted to bring up, or anything?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, I think we we touched on lots of different things.
Speaker 1:Thank you yeah, no, of course, thank you. It's always a pleasure to have you on here and to to speak with you yeah good fun, I like, I like where you go, I like where you go.
Speaker 1:I know I'm always like, I just it, like it's so fun to have somebody that likes to go deep, because I like I remember one of my first conversations with somebody in like the spiritual. This was like years and years ago. But they're like you really have to be careful what you say to people, because certain like perspectives or like you know that kind of you know when you look at trauma from not a positive lens but like it's, it's for your soul, right, or like people she's like like be careful, and I don't know something about. That was like, but like I don't know. I want to, I want to explore it all, I want to go to all the places because that's just you know, and people will tell me they're like, you're really like, just in, like everyday life, right, that maybe are not super spiritual, like you're really open about things, and I just feel like I don't know. For me it's like what's the point not to you know like?
Speaker 3:or just even know what is true for you. You know and you get, and that may change and evolve as well, but right now, this is what I know is true for me, whilst then also again just being interested or curious and open to other people's experiences or perspectives and make it?
Speaker 3:yeah, I don't think I, you know, like it just sort of to me makes a lot of sense. Um, we're very, we're all very individual and we all have our own unique path. There is not one right path, um, and that there isn't. You know, nothing is just one-sided, everything is multifaceted, and so we need each other to be able to sort of share different experiences or communicate from different perspectives, or to actually know something. You know, we could see, like I think Steiner also says or encourages, for observation to be done on an item, like, I think, over seven or eight perspectives. There's a certain angles. You can't just know something by looking at it way. It's being able to observe and know it from all these different angles, and then you're going to see that thing in an entirely different light, with potentially entirely different functions and processes, and that's really what what we're doing yeah, yeah, and it's like all truths exist at once.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's like there's your truth, there's my truth, there's someone else's truth, and you know it doesn't like no one's wrong, but yeah, you wanted to say something maybe when we bring in the good and evil stuff, and then I'd be like, yeah, no, that's wrong.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sorry, yeah, that's that's like no. But yeah, I know, yeah, I know what you're thinking too also, yeah, oh, dear, yeah, uh.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much and and if there's any way like people can work with you or find you, I mean I'll link everything in the show notes and if anyone's listening, go get your deck. I love it. I pull it, my daughter and I too, and she, when she was in that group thing too, she was like mom. She's like so many people in there pull like tarot cards and they really into astrology and it's just like in school nobody believes in astrology. Tarot is the devil. And then she gets in this really like like kind of mental health facility space and people are like connecting through God through all these sources, so kind of like tying that in. But we, when she saw your deck, she's like, oh, my God love it.
Speaker 3:Can we pull some cards? I was like, yeah, let's do it. Yeah, yeah, she's, she's a goodie, she's, she is, she is, oh, thank you. Thank you for having me. It's been lovely to chat to you.