225. Leading the Revolution Towards Human First Businesses

This week, I speak with Alex Mufson, a Human Design expert and CEO and founder of REV, which is leading the revolution towards a world of human-first businesses. 

In this episode, Alex and I talk about: 

• Human Design & Business 
• From a horse trainer to a human design expert 
• Entrepreneurs and the undefined root center 
• The third line in human design 
• Rev and how it’s changing the entrepreneurial world 
• Splenic authority & emotional authority 
• Running a Human Design aligned business 

Wholistic Human Design Academy use code: blackfriday24 until 11/30/24 

1:1 Coaching Package : use code: blackfriday24 until 11/30/24

Links:

Substack

Luna Astrology

HD 101 Class

Mastery Monday Newsletter

Where you can find Alex:

Revhumandesign.com

Instagram

Where you can find Rochelle:
 Instagram

TikTok

Website

YouTube

Email: info@rochellechristiane.com

Chapters

• 0:01 Human Design & Business Mastery
• 13:00 Building Healthy Business Ecosystems
• 17:26 Navigating Entrepreneurial Identity and Conditioning
• 22:59 Entrepreneurial Motivation and Purpose Discovery
• 36:13 Navigating Emotional and Splenic Authority
• 47:00 Understanding Human Design in Relationships
• 54:31 Integrating Human Design and Psychology
• 1:04:00 Navigating Professional Boundaries and Human Design
• 1:12:12 Finding Rev Human Design

Transcript

Rochelle Christiane: 0:01

Welcome to the Emotional Mastery Podcast. I am your host, rochelle. I'm a holistic human design health coach and this is a space for human design and spiritual journey. It's not about being a master of your emotions, rather mastering the tools to self-regulate, to awakening yourself and remembering who you are. Human design changed my life about five years ago and I've been learning and teaching the system ever since. This podcast is human design meets spirituality, meets astrology. You don't have to have a belief system to be here, just an open mind and curiosity. This is a journey of meeting yourself and awakening to your infinite potential. Now let the magic begin. Welcome back to another episode on the podcast. I was not going to put anything out today because today is Thursday Thanksgiving in the US but then I decided I was just going to do it. So here is your episode on the podcast today. This episode is phenomenal.

Rochelle Christiane: 0:56

I speak with Alex Buffson, who is a human design expert and the founder and CEO of Rev, which is a leading, which is leading the revolution towards a world of human-first businesses. Alex is a truly intuitive businesswoman with a force that only a projector could bring to building values-led company that center radical humanity every step of the way. Alex is also a licensed clinical social worker, but despite all of her advanced clinical training, she realized that the work does not end with therapy to achieve lasting collective change. A true bootstrap entrepreneur and the Robin Hood of capital, alex scaled Aspen growth coaching from zero to seven figures in under three years. Her soul's mission is to free people from capitalism and toxicity as fast as possible so we can all do good in this world. This unwavering focus on seeing a future of humanity-driven businesses is what led Alex to her next venture, rev. So Rev is on a mission to redirect the flow of capital from those who do harm with it to those who heal with it. And Alex and her team are committed to business as a form of art and activism, offering disruptive ways to amplify heart-led businesses. And we dug all into her journey from just being a three-year-old wanting to fly to the Amazon as a CEO of her own company to leading this company called Rev. And she truly has an inspiring story journey and she's really, really in her purpose as a projector. We really talk about human design, how we can use it specifically as it applies to businesses. It really, really is a phenomenal conversation.

Rochelle Christiane: 2:35

I can't wait for you to hear it, and today again, as it is Thursday, I have recently put out some Black Friday deals which go until Saturday, november 30th, at 1159 pm, central Time, that is. And so that is the Holistic Human Design Academy, with $111 off the three-month container, where you get one-on-one, you get community, you get live calls. There's nine modules. It's really a phenomenal program which really really is the bridge between where you're at now and being your most aligned, authentic version of self. It really begins that deconditioning process, the self-awareness, the self-love. There's tools to identify and reprogram the subconscious shadow work, all the beautiful and challenging things right that really begin to help us see our path and our purpose and really rediscovering what we're supposed to do. The intuitive workshop is also on sale. The emotional mastery workbook is on sale and the one-on-one coaching package is also on sale. That is three-month container with weekly calls. We really dive into your chart in a really deep, personalized way and support to move through the things that come up, this deconditioning process, all the things. So all that is available.

Rochelle Christiane: 4:00

I will put all the links in the show notes. Every way you can connect with and work with Alex is also in the show notes. Go give her a follow on Instagram. She really is incredible in what she's doing and so heart-led and people first in a society, in a culture where we're so about the hustle and the money and so many of us are not authentic to ourself in that chase. So go give her a follow.

Rochelle Christiane: 4:27

I hope that you love the episode. I'm going to keep this real short because it is Thanksgiving and so I want to. This episode itself was a little bit longer. So, yeah, enjoy. I will talk to you next week. Well, welcome to the Emotional Mastery Podcast. Today I have Alex Mufson right. Is that correct? That's correct. You got it. Second, guess myself there. Human design expert, founder and CEO of Rev and a human-first business. And I find that so fascinating because I've been in the human design sort of world, for I think I'm going on between five and six years now, like five and a half years, and it's like every time we peel back a layer, it's like something new comes up, some new shadows, some new thing that we have to overcome. And so my journey has primarily been in just like personal development with human design. But I always find it so fascinating when it's layered in with business, because I think especially entrepreneurship has a lot to do with personal development and so oh, my goodness, yes, that is.

Alex Mufson: 5:26

You cannot overstate how much our businesses and ourselves are entangled as entrepreneurs, and just our relationship to work is so complex in this late-stage capitalism world that we live in.

Rochelle Christiane: 5:37

Yeah, it's so interesting and yeah, so I'll kind of hand you the floor and just you can share as much or as little as you'd like about your story. Put a little moments along the way'll kind of hand you the floor and just you know you can share as much or as little as you'd like about like your story, put a little moments along the way that kind of got you to what you're doing now and then we can just take it from there.

Alex Mufson: 5:52

That's a big question and I love it. If you had asked me 10 years ago if I would be teaching through the lens of something called human design that was not a peer reviewed science, all of this I would have said absolutely not. I am a licensed clinician by training, though I came there by way of being a horse trainer and an animal behaviorist. So I always say that I took the scenic route. But I learned most of what I learned about behavior and feelings through horses, which I love because they're nonverbal animals, and I think there's so much happening for humans on the verbal level that we can get distracted by the fact that that's just like one small way that we express ourselves and one small way that we process and what's living in our body and in our nonverbal world is as impactful as it is for an animal that doesn't have speech, the way that we have speech. So that's very much where I started professionally, which doesn't necessarily look like, oh, that's a straight line to business mentorship, but I was always an entrepreneur. Three years old, I did not have an imaginary friend, I had an imaginary business, I was obviously the CEO and I was very angry at my mother for not taking me to the airport. I don't remember the whole story, but I do remember the anger that I felt when she refused to take me to Chicago's O'Hare Airport as a three-year-old and dropped me off because I was the CEO of a company that had the last remaining woolly mammoth and my assistant, michelle, was waiting for me in South America. And to this day I miss that meeting, obviously because of my mom. So you have a daughter, so you can probably feel the weight my mom felt. She took me to the pediatrician. She was like is my daughter crazy? The answer was no, but I am an entrepreneur, so I started the.

Alex Mufson: 7:48

I had many businesses as a pre-18 year old, always hustling, but I started in animal behavior as a horse trainer. And then my whole world was rocked when I was 24, when I started to have what is still a mystery brain disease and at the time I thought I would die. There was no outcome that I thought led to even me being as old as I am now. I didn't die and in the process I was no longer able to hold my emotional life, my distress, through working with my body. That was a very physical job, though I really loved the emotional and intellectual pursuit of being deeply entangled with horses and their humans. It was also being a professional athlete.

Alex Mufson: 8:38

So when that was suddenly and really destructively not something that not only could I do it to the level I wanted to in that moment, but I also didn't foresee a path where, if I did live, I would be able to pursue that career in the way that that had been. That was my whole life. It wasn't like a career to me, it was my life, since I was, you know, three, six years old with horses. So that completely changed the trajectory of what I thought my life was going to go, or what it was going to be and who I was going to be. And in the process I started doing therapy as a client and then I opted to go to get my master's opted to go to get my master's become a therapist, because it was so impactful to me to do that work and find my way to being okay with a new version of myself. I'm very lucky in that, though I've had a lot of medical challenges, since I can still walk and I am still able-bodied, but I will never be the athlete that I was, and at that point I thought that I would end up dead. So I did a lot of acceptance work in that and I wanted to move that forward in my life for others, and I had this sort of client base as a horse trainer that had been asking me for years if they could sit with me outside of the riding arena because I was constantly de-centering the horse's behavior and centering how the human showed up in relationships. So it all kind of made sense. And then of course, life happened and things that I couldn't have predicted occurred and I started working for my licensure hours at whatever treatment center I could find and that ended up being deeply impactful and showing me some entrepreneur opportunities once I did complete my master's and wasn't dead, that I could start a business and fill in some needs.

Alex Mufson: 10:36

At that point I was focused on keeping people out of residential treatment because I had just happened to end up working in a residential treatment center for almost six years during the graduate portion. You have to get licensure hours and internship hours to be a therapist and so I just I'm in rural Montana, there weren't a lot of options and so I just ended up at a treatment center and then I really wanted to disrupt that sort of cycle of young people being in institutions for six months, 12 months, 24 months. I mean, I had kids who I worked with when they were 18. They hadn't been out of a treatment center since they were 12. So I really wanted to disrupt that. And so that's how everything pivoted from the original horse training business that I was going to evolve into a therapy practice into what turned out to be a company that scaled zero to seven figures in under three years.

Alex Mufson: 11:30

And I was on that ride for a bit and that taught me a lot. That taught me so much about really what I hadn't done for myself in my first business as a horse trainer, because as a horse trainer, that business depended completely on my body and my energy, and when my body and my energy was no longer available to me, in the same way, the business actually didn't support me. It didn't support my healing, it didn't help me in any way. It just stopped and human design entered my life as I was scaling this new business and enforced some of the experiments I was already doing to try to accept and also flourish within where I should be in a system, not where a lot of external conditioning that says if you're not moving, if you're not going. If you're not pushing and over-functioning for everyone, you're not doing enough. That's a narrative that I think most people, especially people conditioned as women in our society, are familiar with, and so I took a radically different approach to scaling the business, and it doesn't mean I didn't work really really hard, but I also worked very intentionally within the human design framework, and I do believe that that's a huge reason why, in scaling that quickly, I actually got healthier and not sicker, because usually you hear that story very differently than that.

Alex Mufson: 13:00

And so after that project fell complete, to me I'm a founder at heart. Like once it's stable, I don't really have much interest anymore, and that's just my position in this ecosystem of businesses. I had other projects in mind, and one of them is Rev, which is now alive, which is supporting other people to redefine their definition of what business is and really disrupt capitalism from the inside, because I don't predict that, in my lifetime at least, capitalism is going to go anywhere. I hope it maybe gets a bit more caring, but I don't believe that it's just going to vanish. And so how do we get inside the belly of the beast and how do we create businesses that if you're 24 and suddenly having brain hemorrhages. Your business takes care of you instead of just dropping you.

Alex Mufson: 13:52

And now that I know how to do that and I have done it I want to free as many people as I can in their relationships to work, because most people do have to have some relationship to work in one way or another, and that isn't just me. I have amazing professionals. Whether it's the HR part of it that's holding you back, or you could really benefit from a CEO mentor like me, or it's trauma and old stuff holding you back, or the fact that you're so burnt out your adrenals are fried. I have all of those people coming together on the team because we think the more people we can get healthy and have building their livelihoods based on health and, frankly, love and compassion, the more the money is going to be in the right people's hands instead of where it usually is. So we're all about redirecting the flow of capital from those who do harm with it, which is most people who have money right now, to those who are healing with it, which is hopefully our audience.

Rochelle Christiane: 14:48

Yeah, wow, I have so many questions and I love that mission and a lot of what I do is sort of body-based, like connecting with your body, understanding your body, and that's where human design kind of comes into play, I guess like kind of rewinding. First of all, can you share your human design and your astrology big three?

Alex Mufson: 15:03

if you know them, I would love to, so I definitely feel more connected to my human design, simply because that's what I'm studying, though I am aspiring and in the process of studying astrology right now, which is exciting.

Rochelle Christiane: 15:17

I think they go hand in hand eventually, because I started in astrology and quickly went into and you went the other way. Yes, yes, I'm an advanced course right now, which is great.

Alex Mufson: 15:33

So I am a 1.3 splenic projector. I feel really connected to the splenic authority and, though that was probably the first thing that I was like, oh, this explains. This gives me language for something that kind of I thought was crazy before. I'm also a Pisces and a Libra rising, but I'm curious, what's your design? So we know who we're talking to.

Rochelle Christiane: 15:49

Yeah, I'm a six three emotional manifesting generator.

Alex Mufson: 15:52

Cool. I love many gems. I'm partnered with a man. I feel like a very special connection between projectors and manny gems.

Rochelle Christiane: 16:01

Yeah it's. I mean it's been a lot of deconditioning and I mean I'm still like in the process of that, like it's it's a lot of. I mean, I think, any, any type, and you know it's a lot of work when it comes to that.

Alex Mufson: 16:13

I mean, you have three things. Do you mind if I observe?

Rochelle Christiane: 16:17

about your design.

Alex Mufson: 16:18

You have three things that I think would be really interesting. Like you as a mani-gen, you're all about what that spark is. You're excited about that novelty and making sure that you're not building and then just staying stuck in a rut. But then you have an emotional authority, which means you have to take a lot of time to process and integrate before you make decisions. So that's probably right off the bat kind of tricky because you're like oh, I sparked at that, but now I have to wait to learn if it's for me. And then I think the six three profile is really fascinating because in two different ways you have to gain wisdom through experience and for you it's like, okay, you've got these long wisdom gaining times for that conscious six line that maybe you feel connected to, but then, behind the scenes you're can I swear on this podcast. The third line is like all about fucking around and finding out and so it's like behind the scenes.

Alex Mufson: 17:10

You're like I'm supposed to be this on this long arc of like the six line and you know, gaining wisdom, and then I'm just fucking around and finding out behind the scenes and like lighting things on fire so I can just see all of those things working together to make you I don't know you, but that would be a really cool person to get to know.

Rochelle Christiane: 17:26

Yeah, I think, like my conditioning a lot comes from like being told to like act a certain way, be a certain way, be the good girl. So it's like I'm fighting this battle internally of like having to be this way, but when really I want to be this way, you know, and when I'm this way, it's like, well, you give up too easily, or you are you're doing too many things, or you quit, you're not, you know, it's all that narrative, and so I'm like, really, you know, spending a lot of time unpacking that, so I can show up authentically.

Rochelle Christiane: 17:53

Well, because manifesting generators.

Alex Mufson: 17:54

There's so much conditioning around like you should do this and do it forever and it's like no, you're supposed to, and there's honestly a lot of I I think the clinician in me would call it like pathology attached. I see I've rarely met a manifesting generator that didn't at least suspect, if not have an official diagnosis of ADHD. And I kind of call bullshit on that because I want the manigens out there sparking and then saying, okay, cool, Got that started. Can you take this from here Because I have a new idea? And then saying, okay, cool, Got that started. Can you take this from here Cause I have a new idea, and instead it's so pathologized as like there's a problem, but there's no problem, You're that you're the joy You're, you're the excitement in the world.

Rochelle Christiane: 18:34

Yeah Well, and I've also found, like like that, I have that hanging gate nine, three times in my in my design, and so that's like that gate of like detail focus Right. So I find, you know, with ADHD and stuff, on top of being like a mani-gent, but also literally feeling like I can't sit still because I'm so overwhelmed with like everything that's coming, I'm trying to see the big picture instead of just like what's in front of me.

Alex Mufson: 18:56

Do you have a very open mental center, like your crown and your?

Rochelle Christiane: 19:00

Ajna. My Ajna is defined, my root is undefined, which I find a lot of. That comes in with my emotions, where I'm like I got to do it now, though the thing is not going to be here tomorrow.

Alex Mufson: 19:09

I have an undefined root too. I think for entrepreneurs that have an undefined root, there's a specific challenge in understanding when to stop and also understanding that relationship to scarcity. And, to be honest, I think the undefined route can be actually really beautiful for entrepreneurs, because our sense of urgency actually gets shit done, and it can also be incredibly toxic and screw up our entire life and our adrenals and you're just fried, and so it's really a matter of understanding how to both notice that impulse but then also be like where is my definition? And maybe I should like consult that once in a while so that my root center can chill out Like it's okay, I've done enough.

Rochelle Christiane: 19:54

Yeah, it's interesting. I've been dating a reflector for like a year now and he just like is Cool, a manager and a reflector.

Rochelle Christiane: 20:01

I'm fascinated, tell me everything. He's like I'm fascinated, tell me everything. He's just so slow to do things Right and he wants to start his own business. So he's like oh, I got to email I know, and my, my energy is just like he'll be like oh, I got to email this person, I got to email that person. I'll find myself Cause I'll be like did you do it? Oh, no, I'll do it tonight. Did you do it? No?

Alex Mufson: 20:29

I'll do it tonight, then I just do, I don't have to catch myself, yeah, that over-functioning part that we're conditioned.

Alex Mufson: 20:32

But it might be interesting with his like 28, 30-day kind of lunar cycle. And then your emotional authority is even though you don't have the set rhythm of the moon that he does which in some ways, though, when I work with reflectors they often express to me that that is frustrating to trust that that length of time is okay. But also it encourages you as an emotional authority, because sometimes your authority actually might take longer than 28, 30 days, but because there's no concrete measurable cycle for you, it's easy to jump ahead. So it'd be interesting to be almost forced to slow down in that partnership. I think that's quite lovely.

Rochelle Christiane: 21:07

It really has Just in the aspect of like a title or commitment or like moving into something deeper. It's like it's been so confronting, because I'm usually like, okay, we like each other, let's do it Right. But he's just very like honoring himself without knowing that he's doing that.

Alex Mufson: 21:22

You know Well and I would wonder if that is actually because you'll have a sacral response to things which is very like just do it, but that's not your authority, from what you've shared. And so I find that people with emotional authority but defined sacrals often end up jumping at that sacral impulse because it feels so good and then being like oops, I jumped too soon, so again you've almost like it's. You've maybe consciously or unconsciously picked someone that like forces you to not act on your sacral definition, which is not your authority, and wait for yourself.

Rochelle Christiane: 21:54

Yeah, so cool? Yeah, it's, it is. But, like I said, it's also very confronting, because I'm not operating that way.

Alex Mufson: 22:02

You know I'm like so out of my cool, like like the therapist in me is, like you know, interesting that you did that to yourself, but it must be really, really challenging.

Rochelle Christiane: 22:09

Yeah, it is.

Rochelle Christiane: 22:09

But I kind of want to go back to so when you were like that three-year-old right Like kind of go back to like your entrepreneurial roots and like knowing that you were a CEO of a company and you know, because I think a lot of and it kind of ties into that conditioning piece, cause I think a lot of us like have this like knowing from such a young age like what we want to do Right and I'm kind of lumping myself into this other category as well but yet you know so many things like our parents or we're conditioned out of thinking that we can do it Right, like I've always felt so uncomfortable working for somebody else.

Rochelle Christiane: 22:38

It's always felt like ugh, like. But I also have those things I need to work through in order to step into my real entrepreneurial and it's very trial and error, which I think the 6-3 part of me supports. But going from that age to being like you need to take me to the airport and then your mom taking you to the doctor, being like is everything okay. What was the thing that kept you, I guess, kept that fire and kept that motivation to like be an entrepreneur? Does that make sense?

Alex Mufson: 23:08

I think it's a fantastic question and I mean I understand my mom's impulse there, like I get that it was out of care and that's her own generation's conditioning about deference to authority. Because the other question you can ask is you know, tell me more about your business plan, right? So you know, as a mom, it shows what she was taught and probably her parents were taught and how many generations of like. That sort of spirit is sick and I do think that that's on a grander scale is sick and I do think that that's on a grander scale capitalism. Because capitalism actually only serves a very select few at the top and wants to discourage too many workers from not feeling that they should abide by that system. And that's why I think that there is a healing way that we can engage capitalism. Because if more healing people and I don't mean just literal healers like therapists or naturopathic doctors or whatever, I mean artists and what you're doing and like all this like beautiful work that's out there If more of us had that knowledge, like you said, that we weren't meant to just be defined by someone else, the money can still flow. That is actually not inherently good or bad. It's currently pretty bad, but it's not inherently good or bad, I think part of what kept this.

Alex Mufson: 24:40

I think this kept the spark alive in a couple of different ways. First of all, I do think, in a weird way, I was lucky to graduate college right into the 2008 recession, so it's not like there were a ton of jobs anyway. So, to be honest, it didn't occur to me to get a job because none of my friends could get jobs. It just wasn't available. So in some ways, that was really helpful and the fact that I had though I didn't study it in school I had this vocation with the horses that I felt very connected to, and so I think that is sort of like when everything breaks down in society the people who can do vocational work will still be working, because people will still need, if there are cars, their car fixed and if there are no cars, their horses getting ready to be ridden. So you know, there's certain things that helped me to have that confidence that I could do that. I also took it really seriously. I'm a 1-3, so my first line was really a part of this.

Alex Mufson: 25:40

I studied anti-capitalism and I studied, you know, the intersectional identity politics of our world deeply. My college degree is in feminist theory, and I think the more I learned, the more I realized how much of life is a construct and how much of it isn't inherent to how we have to live. And so I think there's an interesting I have this interesting collision of inherently believing that I was the CEO, whatever I came out that way, being really interested in things like horses that are more vocationally based, and then having had whatever splenic hit to get a very counterculture education that taught me that everything from gender to work to the medical industrial complex is a construct that we have built. That freed me in a way to look at things and say can I do them differently? Things and say can I do them differently.

Alex Mufson: 26:47

And so, even as a horse trainer, though I was certainly living, my conditioning I think that was the first layer of deconditioning was not going and getting quote unquote a real job.

Alex Mufson: 26:53

But then I was like the worst boss ever because I still acted like a shitty boss and overworked my body and acted like a generator when I'm a projector. But it was still a layer of deconditioning because from very early on I never had a paycheck. So I just was like when you need money, you figure out what someone else will pay for and then money will come. And I think I got that early reinforcement which, in a weird way, I never attached health insurance to a job I never attached, like I didn't know what paid time off was until I got the job that I had to get to get my clinical license because there's state requirements. It was the first time, like it never occurred to me like oh, people get paid to take time off, like that hadn't been really infused in me very young and so in a lot of ways that was very, very lucky because it just made anything possible ways.

Rochelle Christiane: 27:46

that was very, very lucky because it just made anything possible.

Rochelle Christiane: 27:48

Yeah, it's so interesting that first line you know my daughter, she's also a one, three and part of her struggles right now is she feels purposeless.

Rochelle Christiane: 27:54

She doesn't know what she's going to do and somebody completely not even a conversation about human design or anything was just suggesting like her finding like something that she's passionate about and just like focusing on that Right, and that's so first line. You know, like being able to dive into something that really like gives you that fire or like that purpose, or um, because she will, she'll find like random things and obsessed about it for like months. You know, and I'm like, I'm always encouraging, I'm like go for it. You know, like she was obsessed with Germany and just like was learning German and like researching everything about Germany. So it's so interesting how you know even things like that that we can use that to like even unknowingly, cause I'm sure you know you probably didn't know about human design when you were in college. You know, and it's like I I love to see when people are like living out their design and they're not even knowing it.

Alex Mufson: 28:40

Totally and I what I would have known. Cause I Totally? And what I would have known? Because in college I was still riding and I was still working with horses and I would work half the year at the university and then I would go to Wyoming and work in the mountains and pack mules into the wilderness. For the other half of it I was having these adventures total third line. And yes, I was having these adventures total third line. And yes, I was messing up big time.

Alex Mufson: 29:14

But what I was also doing, what I would have said was I want to go and start this business working with horses because I have to. I have to know how to do this, I have to get better and I was already a very competent writer, but I had so many questions and at that point 21, I guess, when I started that business I just desperately wanted someone to pay me enough that I could just try to figure out these questions and then be able to pay my bills. That's literally all I wanted, and I do think that that helped keep that fire alive, because it wasn't, it didn't feel optional to me, because I had to figure out how, whatever the question was how this horse was thinking, and I think that's when I, when I draw a line forward to Rev and how I work with clients who are primarily either established entrepreneurs and CEOs or they're experts in something else and they're trying to break into self-employment and take that skill with them. I think that all of the third line stuff that I've learned that I can now share with them came from it not feeling optional to me. So I learned a lot of things that if it's optional because you could just get a job and they have benefits and time off, you don't learn certain things because you feel like there's this option of a safety net. I just didn't. I never engaged with that. Like I don't remember in college thinking and then I'll get a job. It just never occurred to me and I think that's really lucky in some ways and I think your advice to your daughter as a one three is really smart because she, once you're passionate and once you're focused on whatever it is, especially as a first line in that learning, it's not optional anymore and so then the path just kind of flows in front of you, similar to now.

Alex Mufson: 31:13

I don't feel like it's optional for me to share what I've learned at the intersection of my therapist training and my entrepreneurship and human design, because I'm the only one that has that exact little intersection of knowledge, so of course I have to share it. That just feels like the natural next step, and so I build a business that allows me to do that and I think that clarity of mission and I said this earlier, but I am on a mission to redirect the flow of capital from those who do harm with it to those who heal with it. Some days that means I'm on a podcast. Other days that means I'm starting a clinical business, which I have a clinical startup going right now that I'm not a practitioner in but I'm building. All of these things still serve the mission and that mission is because of that first line. It's because I'm so clear on this is what I need to learn how to do on this is what I need to learn how to do.

Rochelle Christiane: 32:04

Yeah, I love that.

Alex Mufson: 32:05

So when you started, rev was it started with human design in mind or is that something you weaved in later? Yes, so Rev started because I was still running, at that point, a fairly large business and all these people were coming to me asking for support. I was like, oh my gosh, I do not have time because I'm running this big business right. And then it kind of I started doing things like okay, yes, I'll do it in trade because I don't want to make money off of this right now, but you know, you have a cool career. And so I started doing that and there was some human design in that and lots of other things. And then it was actually really interesting. I'm a projector, so my strategy is to be invited, and I was kind of looking at an office space for a project and I'm standing there and I'm actually with one of my employees and someone comes up and says what do you guys do? And I'm first talking him up because he's awesome and I'm not in the service world and for some reason, when she said, well, what do you do? You know, so you own this business, and I said yeah, and then I said, and I also help business owners and with human design, and that person locked onto me and was like I have been looking for you and literally was like I'll hire you right now. And I was like I don't have any offers for this. So I went home and I slept on it and this often happens to me At some point during the night splenic authority the spleen hit and I had the suite of offers that you can currently see on my Rev website as far as working with me, because it never changed.

Alex Mufson: 33:50

It just hit me like a lightning bolt and I had no infrastructure for it. So, third line, and I went to my senior program coordinator at the existing business and I said so, really sorry, but sold something that we have no systems for and I already sold it. So I'm going to need like the whole contracting flow. I need everything as soon as you can build it, because I already sold one. And she, thankfully, was very used to me having these splenic hits and was like okay, tell me what you sold.

Alex Mufson: 34:24

And that's how Rev started. And then I realized that everybody that was inviting me to do this work also needed support with HR, also needed adrenal health support or also had trauma, and so that's when I started to think, oh, this is bigger than just me. I want to bring together for lack of a better term an army of people who have amazing. Most of these people have worked in like the worst of the worst, like you know oil and gas or something like that and are now taking that information and repurposing it for someone who is trying to do good in the world. So we've got an army of experts.

Rochelle Christiane: 35:02

I love that. It like makes me so excited that you've combined like all these things into this beautiful, beautiful thing to like help people. You know, combine, you know human design and business and and so with your. So for me, like splenic authority for some reason. So I have a defined spleen, sacral and solar plexus and so I've always, like, as I've just been studying and talking to people and holding sessions and things like that, for some reason Splenick authority is always the one that just feels like out of grasp for like my mental knowledge, because it's just like that like one hit thing you know, and you just drive no mental piece of that really isn't what I think like.

Rochelle Christiane: 35:38

Obviously, you know, with human design, a lot of it is getting out of the mind and into the body and even with emotional authority we can make it such a mental trip of like, oh my God, this and I felt this way yesterday and this way, this way, and then attack. And I think that's the struggle with emotional authorities, cause it can take a long time that that narrative starts to play up Right, and we're having to find a way to come back to just like to, to the quiet of just knowing, that inner knowing, um, but like with lenient authority for you, so it just like, it just hits you. Like how did you? You always trusted that, or was that like a learned decondition process?

Alex Mufson: 36:10

Oh, you asked a couple of really good questions within that. Ok, so first of all, splenic authority for those who don't know what it is is the most primal kind of the oldest authority, a very survival based. You are an emotional authority and I love that. On a body graph chart which, if you don't know what a body graph chart is, go on the Rev website, you get one for free they're symmetrical right, so the emotional authority is on the right and the splenic authority is on the left.

Alex Mufson: 36:41

I always love that image of the mirror because the way that I grasp your experience which is very foreign to me but what I find happens is we are almost the perfect reverse of each other's authority. So what happens for me is I don't know the answer unless I know the answer, and when I know the answer, it is very clear I don't get to stay in that moment of clarity for very long unless I engage it like, unless I'm practiced at hearing it, which at this point I feel very confident. You asked a question of was I always confident? I do think I always had a very strong sense of that survival, intuitive voice. I also think sometimes I was frustrated with it because it felt almost bossy or like too much knowledge, because there's no narrative attached to the knowing. So when you're just walking through life getting these hits without understanding them. To me, when I was younger, before I had human design like I'm talking like 18, 19, I remember very clearly feeling really resentful of whatever was happening inside of me and almost like not wanting to listen because it was so big and so powerful. Fast forward. I love having the language for it, but I do think that as an adult I slowly was engaging more and more with it and it's very, very strong and powerful within me.

Alex Mufson: 38:16

But when I think about how it mirrors an emotional authority, so that you can maybe like picture what it would be like because I actually have a lot of emotional authority clients but I find that the splenic authority clients that I work with have a very hard time working with other people that aren't splenic because they're like this is so foreign, exactly what you said. So you process up front and then eventually you know and probably you have some sort of physical some. A lot of emotional authorities describe it as like a lightness or a softness or there's just a grounded knowing. The visual I have is like you're riding a wave and then you land the plane and it's kind of a mixed metaphor, but that's what I see when I watch emotional authorities Reverse that and it's splenic authority. So land the plane. You don't know why the hell you landed the plane right there. You know that you have to get the plane on the ground, you know that, but you don't get to know why until sometimes years later.

Alex Mufson: 39:16

In my experience and I'm sure everybody has a different relationship with this, but in my experience I do things and act on things and then have to learn why. Sometimes it's a week, sometimes it's six months, sometimes it's years. And I actually one of my companies I have two people very, very close to me in leadership that are both emotional authorities and they have to suspend a lot of distress because I'll make a decision and they know we've worked together long enough that they know that they will probably get to the same decision, but they will have no idea what the hell I'm doing and be like whoa, why would you do that? And then what I find really interesting is time goes by, sometimes like 10 months, like them just trusting me and being uncomfortable which I am so grateful for their trust and then usually they hit the same place because we're very values aligned, so we have a lot of trust we will end up in the same place. And then almost it's like they leapfrogged me because they had all that time to process before they understood the decision and made the decision and made the like true commitment.

Alex Mufson: 40:20

So when I think of it, I think of it as like reflecting. You know, the splenic authority might know first, but probably by the time the emotional authority knows. That's why, in the human design concept, emotional authority is like where everybody's going, it's like in the future. I think that the landing of the plane in an emotional authority is so powerful. It's just our world isn't really meant for either of us yet because the splenic authority is very old, like right now.

Alex Mufson: 40:47

I mean people just think I'm impulsive because I would do great if I was, like, you know, lost at sea, right, and it was just crisis all the time. Survival yeah, that's what that authority is. And then emotional authority is like we were talking about earlier. Authority is like like we were talking about earlier. You maybe feel pressured to go with your gut and move fast and you know, take no prisoners, when really you need that space to then jump ahead of everybody else. So it's like we're in this in-between time where neither really feels good, but I do think we're heading towards the emotional authority. But you just have to think of it as the reverse. Whatever it feels like at the end of your process is what it feels to me at the beginning, with a lot of energy attached and zero understanding, which is a really weird place to be.

Rochelle Christiane: 41:32

That's literally the best explanation and I completely understand it. And it's interesting because you describe them as like mirrors and Ra. For anyone listening who doesn't know the man who downloaded the whole system, he says that once we went from the seven centered being to a nine, that was the spleen and the solar plexus were split from one right. So it almost makes sense that they're two sides of the same coin, just in opposite energies.

Alex Mufson: 41:55

I think that's why I attract a lot of employees that are emotional authorities, because that feels like we see each other. But I also think there's a reason that I'm not partnered with an emotional authority. I think I would drive them nuts because I'm just out here. My partner is sacral authority, so he's kind of also the go with the gut and has a very defined spleen. So it's very different, but it's still like the seemingly impulsiveness is not troubling, whereas I would imagine I give a lot of credit. When I hear that a splenic authority and emotional authority are living together, I'm like, wow, you guys have so much grace for each other. That's like such beautiful love.

Rochelle Christiane: 42:35

Yeah, yeah, it's interesting, like for being emotional, and then with a reflector like I, and it's interesting cause he's so attuned to like every nuance of like my energy, like today I was, we were on the phone and I wasn't as like energetic as I usually am. He's like what's wrong? I'm like, I'm like I'm literally fine. He's like no, there's something wrong.

Alex Mufson: 42:53

He's like you don't know it yet.

Rochelle Christiane: 42:54

Let me know when you figure it out. But it does like drive him crazy, because I do go through these waves right, like one day I'm fine, one day I'm not, or I'll say something, and the next minute I'm like he'll like bring it up. I'm like, nah, it's, it's over with, I'm done Right. So it is that constant, like obviously, and I'm seeing myself being reflected in it.

Alex Mufson: 43:10

So I mean, I don't. That's a lot to navigate. And as someone with an undefined solar plexus, like, that's the place where I find a lot of conditioning occurs for me, just because it's very, it is such a big wave that you're riding and then because if you're undefined in that area, then you just amplify it and then all of a sudden you're like is this mine or not? And I know for those of you who are out there with undefined solar plexus, it's definitely a skill to learn to be like that's not mine. And for a reflector that's like times 1 million. And I will say that reflectors tend to have better tolerance at least what I've seen for feeling other people's emotional waves than actually projectors with undefined solar plexus. And I think it's just because reflectors they've had to create some sort of protection around them because they're completely undefined, and so there's a lot more skill, whereas projectors we're often really almost encouraged to amplify other people's stuff, whether it's emotional or like sacral energy or whatever that we get a lot of positive feedback, even when it's very destructive.

Rochelle Christiane: 44:24

Well, that makes sense too, because projectors are really learning other people right, in order to like guide and lead and things like that. And I will say, like, with the reflector, like I like, even though he's attuned to my emotions, he never like gets sucked into it. Yes, like, he's sort of like, okay, see what you're going through, like it's valid, but you know like how can we work through it or like whatever. So it's, it is a really interesting cause. I think, like on paper, we, you know, when we're learning human design, like reflectors have this certain um, I guess just from our limited understanding in the process of learning, and he's completely different than what I on paper, right, like learned about reflectors. Like there are things that were that ring true, but overall, like the excitement of a reflector, like I just the energy, like I wasn't expecting those things. But there are times where he gets home from work and I don't hear from him like all night. I'm like what happens?

Alex Mufson: 45:11

like I just passed out yeah, totally being like on all day um, I have found in in supporting people because I've had I have a longer container that people sometimes work with me. That's like three months and I've found that, though, in that three months so reflectors, we're planting a seed and then we have to wait, right, it's a very different cadence than working with projectors and I don't have a huge pool of reflectors to pull from, because there just aren't a huge pool of. So but I will say, um, I always say there, hell hath no fury, like a bitter projector.

Alex Mufson: 45:45

Projectors will hold on to a lot of the conditioning with a lot more almost like desperation, and I think it's because, in the whole prophecy of human design, maybe it's because we're the newest and maybe it's because we're just like the baby design and we don't actually know how to do any of this but I do find that reflectors kind of can take that guidance a little more easily, whereas projectors require, you know, a lot more intensity, which I think is just why we all have to find support in the way that works for us and not equate it with like, oh well, you're totally undefined, so you must be overwhelmed all the time, which might be true, or it might be that I just can give you a few somatic exercises that allow you to cleanse and let things flow through you, and then you're actually really equipped. Whereas a projector maybe doesn't have as many undefined centers but is so conditioned because they have never had any protection around their aura that they have a lot harder time learning those same skills, not better or worse it just is.

Rochelle Christiane: 46:55

Yeah, and I'd also think just how you're raised in childhood would come into play with the conditioning you experience. And it almost would be interesting, because I haven't met his family yet, but I'm very curious to meet them to see like how he mirrors them, and it's like, if you don't know any differently, are you just mirroring what you've grown up in? Do we know if he's like reflector? Do we what Do?

Alex Mufson: 47:13

we know if he's the only reflector.

Rochelle Christiane: 47:15

No, that's what I'm saying. I don't I haven't even.

Alex Mufson: 47:17

You don't know their designs. No, I'm so. I am like very curious, Like I might. It's always on my mind to be like can you find out your family's information, Like obviously he knows their birth dates.

Rochelle Christiane: 47:34

What anniversary is that? I'm going to need all of the personal details of your entire family. I know Right. We're far enough in this now it won't be weird.

Alex Mufson: 47:40

Yeah, trust me, not weird. The only thing I don't need is their social security number Right, Exactly, I know.

Rochelle Christiane: 47:45

I went on a date with somebody once a while ago and I was asking them their birth information and he's like, do you need my driver's license? I'm like no, it's like social security. I'm like no, it's like not that serious.

Alex Mufson: 47:54

You're like, I'm just one of those girls.

Rochelle Christiane: 47:56

Yeah, yeah.

Alex Mufson: 47:57

Yeah, and also this helped me build seven figure businesses. So, yeah, I'm one of those girls. Yeah.

Rochelle Christiane: 48:04

Yeah, well, one of my questions too was like so, within the like infrastructure of Rev, like everybody that works, you know, with you, it's built on this premise of like human design, so like you're all aware of each other's designs and like how you operate, and things like that.

Alex Mufson: 48:18

Okay, yeah, I would say to be fair, generators, in manifesting generators to some extent, don't always need to engage with their design as much as, say, a projector, not because it's not important, but because there's a lot of completion in taking in information.

Alex Mufson: 48:40

So if I give you information, you can probably integrate it, and so some people on the team find it just like endlessly fascinating and study, study, study, study, study.

Alex Mufson: 48:52

And some people just come with a specific ask and know that hey, if that's something that's going on in the business and I've done this with more than one business they can come forward and they can understand where I think it's really interesting. And Rev is a very horizontal hierarchy in that I mean, obviously I own it, but other than that there's not a lot of hierarchy involved in that company. But I have had companies where there's supervisors and employees and sort of like an org chart, so to speak, and I find it really helpful if a generator is in some sort of supervisory position and they're trying to manage a projector. I find it really helpful to get back to the basics of why we act the way we act, because otherwise, to be honest, we're like different species, especially between sacral beings and non-sacral beings, and so within that company dynamic being like hey, you actually can't approach that person that way, they need this. Versus that person you can supervise this way and they'll feel really great.

Rochelle Christiane: 50:02

Yeah, so how does that look like within your company, like sacral versus unsacral, like that dynamic?

Alex Mufson: 50:09

Well, because there's not so much of a hierarchy at Rev, it's not as great an example, but I would say the previous company that I just exited is a great example because we had departments and supervisors and all of that and I find projectors really need one to be seen and two, if a projector is still deeply conditioned, bitterness is very accessible and not necessarily highly directed at the right things. It's just there, whereas generators, for instance, might really really really just run themselves into a wall without clear, measurable understanding of when enough is enough. I actually, one of my right hands is a quad left generator and for those who don't know human design, the quad left part just means lots and lots of energy and go, go, go, everything is action. Lots and lots of energy and go, go, go, everything is action. And you know we joke that it's like she needs and appreciates the like, leash, like, tell me when to stop, help me block, schedule and be very direct with me when my energy is going in the wrong direction, because she doesn't have the vision or the seeing herself, the way that a projector can see her. So she really, really loves when she's a kind of leadership, so she's someone that I supervise. She would love me saying like stop doing that, do not put any more energy towards that, put energy towards this.

Alex Mufson: 51:39

Me speaking to a projector like that would not work at all. Hell hath no fury if I spoke to a projector like that. However, what a projector might need is support in understanding how to rest, because projectors tend to over-function, overwork and then feel very, very bitter and burnt out that they're being underappreciated and that loving guidance that like hey, you've actually done enough and the reason you're tired is because you're not self-policing. So if we look at it, it's actually not that different of a problem. It's about managing energy.

Alex Mufson: 52:13

But we have to approach it very differently because the projector there has to be an invitation. So if they haven't come to me and said like hey, can I have help with this? You are a projector and seem to really get this, can you please give me feedback on this? Managing a projector just by unsolicited advice is just not going to land. Because I'm a projector, if I have a generator working for me and they have given me like a blanket invite for feedback, I can almost say anything and there's there. It doesn't have the emotional weight that it would have if if it felt uninvited.

Rochelle Christiane: 52:55

I love that. I think I think if more people integrated this system, like human design and just like understanding each other, it would change so many relationships in business or otherwise, Did you find? Well, we all oh.

Alex Mufson: 53:08

I'm sorry, go ahead. It's just really interesting because we all think that what we need, everybody else needs, but sometimes what we don't need but we're really good at giving is what the other person needs to receive, and what they're really good at giving is what we need to receive, and I think that's a really difficult especially. You asked about sacral and non-sacral. So I'm using projector and generators like an easy mirror. But if we say projectors are really good at seeing and generators are often really good at doing, and projectors often need a lot of rest.

Alex Mufson: 53:45

So when you think about, like acts of service and acts of love, when a generator, a manifesting generator, is supporting someone without a defined sacral center by doing, that's so beautiful because the projector can rest. But a generator, a sacral being maybe, doesn't need help doing because they have plenty of energy. What they need is to feel seen, and that is something the projector has endless amounts of ability to do. And so it's just about recognizing that just because I needed a certain, I need something, doesn't mean they need something, and I shouldn't be upset that what that person has to offer isn't what I have to offer, because that's actually the beauty of this whole thing, that's actually the good part about this whole dynamic.

Rochelle Christiane: 54:27

Yeah, yeah, and that's so beautiful. I mean in any relationship, dynamic, right, it's being able to understand that. Yeah, did you find any resistance, like within yourself or others, going from this, you know like clinical psychology, sort of like left-brained, like system, to to weaving in? You know, human design based business?

Alex Mufson: 54:46

like system to weaving in, you know, human design based business. A two-part answer I mean. The first part, I think, is when I was in animal behavior and actually when I was in human behavior, like in a treatment center, I was always doing that nonverbal work that is very energetic, and so I was already thinking if you had asked my friends from the time when I was a horse trainer, they would have totally been like oh Alex is totally a witch, but like the girl selling, you know, training horses in Montana isn't going to like lead with that. That's not really. That's not where the marketing went. So I definitely had I think that's the splenic authority. I think I definitely had a very close relationship with my intuition. I knew that there was something happening inside of me and inside of people and inside of horses that wasn't accounted for through what I had available in language. So I think I was primed for that.

Alex Mufson: 55:45

I was also deeply, deeply hurt by the Western medical system. So when I mentioned earlier that I was having these neurological episodes, they did a bunch of experimentation on me over three years, made me very, very ill, took almost 10 years Well, it would have been longer than that, but many, many years and I had an advanced stage endometriosis diagnosis to which I had horrible care for a long time. Once I even got the diagnosis and really ravaged my system. So already I was predisposed to sort of like hate that system because of what it had done to me. The people who took me seriously tended to be acupuncturists and things like that. And so all of this to say, I was still doubtful when someone introduced it to me. And it's a funny story because someone asked have you heard of human design? And I said no. And they said I think you'd be really into it. And I was like, okay, like Googled whatever chart generator came up first, typed it in, spat something out that did not resonate and I was like, oh, confirmation bias. But like the. And then I was like, did I change AM to PM on my birthday? And I realized that I hadn't and I thought, well, it's the same day, it's going to be the same thing, but I'll just plug it in one more time. Plugged it in one more time, totally different, went from generator to projector. Everything changed. So immediately I knew that this wasn't confirmation bias, because the first one I had totally rejected. The second one I was like oh gosh. And then, probably six, eight months later.

Alex Mufson: 57:18

At that point I was pretty bought in and I had hired a mentor to teach me human design specifically, and we discovered that we were off by an hour. I pulled out my birth certificate for something and I hadn't accounted for the fact that Arizona doesn't change time zones and I was born in Arizona, and so I was off by an hour. Again. I was like, well, it's not going to be a big deal, it's an hour. I went from having a defined route to having an undefined route, and that was the only thing that changed.

Alex Mufson: 57:44

And she reflected to me. She was like that's really interesting, because if you had an undefined route, I think you'd present like this and you present the opposite. And I went oh, but you just described my internal experience. I'm really good at presenting with that like defined, pulse, route, measured, but inside I feel that urgency and scarcity that doesn't shut off. And I was like that speaks to me so much more than anything else. And so it was like I had two layers of confirmation that this system was for me in a way that only a third line would have. It couldn't have been better for me to be introduced to it, and then I was already sold. But by that time the second round of confirmation came in I was like, yeah, been better for me to be introduced to it, and then I was already sold.

Rochelle Christiane: 58:30

But by that time the second round of confirmation came in, I was like, yeah, this is for me. It's so interesting when people do pull up an incorrect chart, I like. And then when they pull up the correct one, it's like and I think like we intuitively know, like if it doesn't like, sit with us Right. And that's why whenever I have conversations about human design, I'm like you know yourself best, so like what I say if you know something different. But for me, my birth time was off for an hour and it didn't change much, but it changed my cognition, which makes sense because I always felt really resonant with undefined solar plexus.

Rochelle Christiane: 58:55

I was like I feel like the people pleaser. I feel like I'm so absorbed in people's emotions Like I don't understand, like I felt defined, but I also could really really resonate with the undefined, like.

Alex Mufson: 59:06

I thought, for sure, I was going to be undefined.

Rochelle Christiane: 59:07

And I went from like outer vision to feeling, cognition and I was like that in itself, like when I learned what that was. I was like. That's what that feeling is. That's why I'm so tapped into, like when people walk into a room I can feel it, you know.

Alex Mufson: 59:20

So it's like really interesting, so it's like really interesting I also had had because of the intersection with my clinical work. I've had so many experiences and I hate to use this word because it's a little like weighted but diagnostically getting further with people so much faster with human design. I mean recently, 30 minutes into, I have like a three-day experience that business owners do called Manifest, and 30 minutes in I had and I had exposed some child trauma that was very specific and I understood exactly what it was. That was completely repressed. She knew her sister had experienced it. She did not know she had experienced it and once she went to her family all sorts of information came out that confirmed that in fact she had blocked a lot of this out, a lot of this out.

Alex Mufson: 1:00:18

And, without going into details, I was able to refer her to someone on my team that does specific trauma work and that clinician said to me Alex, this would have taken me, if I had ever gotten there, years and this person had had lots of therapy. So she was not someone who hadn't been working to figure out what the distress was, but I was able to literally find, through reading her chart and asking her questions and seeing how in particular, she was conditioned or deconditioned in certain areas and how that was manifesting in her body and in her patterns. Of course, some of that is my clinical training being able to do that. I'm not saying this is just like this magic chart that just says that to everyone, but by using that I was able to get her probably a year or two further in clinical work so that I could pair her with someone who knew how to do that dissociative clinical work get started immediately. They knew exactly where to work and change her life so much faster.

Alex Mufson: 1:01:12

And I've had so many experiences like that that are like well, if I can do it in 30 minutes, why would I take a year of clinical work to do it? It's not that the clinical work isn't helpful. Now she knows she has this dissociative trauma. Of course you have to do good work around that, but if I can find it in 30 minutes, why wouldn't I? And I've had diagnostics like that. I've found more physical ailments, all sorts of things have happened and it just feels like a cheat to the point where it would almost be irresponsible as a provider. Now that I know how to use it like this to not. And that woman came to me for business support, but really what was blocking her business which is beautiful was this dissociation, not anything structurally or competency around her business. So why don't it's like we look directly at the light, right, like you could spread spend years looking at her spreadsheets, but really it was a childhood trauma that was blocking this next layer of being an amazing CEO.

Rochelle Christiane: 1:02:12

I love that. Yeah, I love to hear more people with you know counseling backgrounds, psychology backgrounds, things like that, fusing these two together, cause I think it is so powerful and I think you know it, just in my, my usage, and like history with human design, that's where I've felt a little bit of imposter syndrome creeping, cause I don't ever want to like provide someone with something I can't like fully support. I guess, in a way, like in the psychological aspect and you know I I don't have the skills to ask the questions that you know to ask, you know, so it's, it is a little bit different, but I've always felt like a responsibility with this information.

Rochelle Christiane: 1:02:44

Where it's not even you know astrology, I feel a little bit more, um, lately it's been more intuitive and more like leaning towards astrology from like a psychological perspective, obviously not like not trained but just the lens that I view it from, um, but there are some things that people even just like mentioning I don't know, just like going over aspects, right, and people will be like, oh my gosh, like I don't know why, I never you know. And then it's like yeah, I don't, I don't know where I was going with that, just that I feel like there's a responsibility to.

Alex Mufson: 1:03:10

I want to encourage you that you, if someone requests a human design reading and you get them towards something that they haven't experienced before, there's no reason you can't refer out. And this blocks a lot of people that I work with, because they're like, well, what if I find this? Or what if this happens? And not just specific to human design, but just this is like, if you're a specialist in one thing and you uncover something, then you just have to have a beautiful network, because, though I am actually trained as a trauma therapist, it's not what I'm doing right now. It's not.

Alex Mufson: 1:03:44

The conditions of my life are not set up to be doing heavy lifting trauma work. I did that for the better part of a decade, and you need to have certain conditions put in place to do that responsibly. So it's not wrong that I found it. In fact, it's amazing that I found it. The responsible thing in that moment was to stop, identify what had happened and say, look, this is not the container for this. But it's very clear that this is true, and so I'm going to make a recommendation as to who you should go to and exactly what you should work on, and you can do that. I mean, yes, that's a very extreme version, but like it could be the same as like you're working with someone in their business and they have an HR issue. I'm not an HR professional, I need to refer that out, or I'm going to give them legal advice that I have no business giving them.

Alex Mufson: 1:04:30

So I think it's about the maturity of the professional to know what their lane is and then us all to really embrace our lanes, because you have a lane, you have this, you know emotional language and this understanding of your interpretation of human design and astrology. So you should be out there doing it and if someone asks you a question or you find something that's out of your scope, it's no problem. We should be working together. But I think we get conditioned to think that to be a professional we have to be all-knowing, and I think that's really capitalist and really keeps us from collective work, which capitalism wants.

Alex Mufson: 1:05:10

It's like, oh yeah, feel that way, because then you'll work for someone else and then you'll never step forward because you'll always have imposter syndrome and I'm like no, no name what your mission is and what you're good at and know your skillset and be confident enough to know when you have surpassed that and make sure that your network is robust enough that now you know who to refer to in that moment. So if you stumble upon something, you're going to be able to call me because we've met now and say, hey, who's that trauma person that's human design informed that I can refer to. And I'm like cool, her name's Bree, here's her number. Get that person to that, to her right away.

Rochelle Christiane: 1:05:44

Yeah, yeah, I love that and I think that kind of you know, my, my thoughts were kind of going with, kind of going back to the beginning, right Of like, whether like following that entrepreneur drive and desire and and like you said, we're often, I guess, like that imposter syndrome comes in due to outside conditioning, like, oh well, you can't do that, you can't do this, and even just you know me being like well, I'm not a psychologist Like I can't hold the space, right, and I think that you're right.

Rochelle Christiane: 1:06:12

You're like we are taught these things from external sources that really kind of keep us down and it's like one path that like doesn't serve the whole. And I love that you talk about like this mission to like share it. You know, because when I first learned human design, like that is sort of, but always in my thing it's like human design literally changed my life in so many different ways and it's like why wouldn't I share that with other people, even if it's just helping people understand how to read a chart so that they can then use it in their practice or whatever they're doing, you know, and so I think that's really just, I don't know. You have a beautiful vision.

Alex Mufson: 1:06:42

Why wouldn't we? Why wouldn't we? And I did a reading for, actually, a very accomplished therapist who has a big multiple hundreds of therapists that work under her and I don't know anything about her, but I did kind of like an intro reading just because we met and it was nice. And she was like why aren't we doing this for all of our clients? Because I didn't give you any content and you know the core of me. And I was like, right, that's what it's all about, and it's not that all the content doesn't matter, but we get to really see each other and I think it's so useful and I think it's where I think more and more people are getting comfortable with it, because even a couple years ago, very few people that I met knew what human design was in America.

Alex Mufson: 1:07:31

I would say more people, if I engaged internationally, did. And now it's rare that I meet someone who doesn't at least know like, oh yeah, I've heard of that, and of course I'm in a certain circle of you know a certain type of person, but at the same time, it's not that narrow of a circle. I'm finding like, oh, this accountant has heard of it, right, and I just think that that's how fast. It's changing and I think that's what we're prepping for that 2027 date, which is big in human design, and you can feel it ramping up, yeah, for sure, yeah.

Rochelle Christiane: 1:08:06

So with Rev do you have? Is it just solely entrepreneurs or it's anyone within any sort of business that comes to you Okay?

Alex Mufson: 1:08:14

Yeah, so most of the people who engage with me personally on the team are either aspiring entrepreneurs or trying to make some big change, just because the work that I do is incredibly close touch, and so you have to really be in the midst of some big change to want that level of mentorship.

Alex Mufson: 1:08:37

And a lot of people sometimes people will come and even do a few days with me in the smaller intensive and I'll refer because we'll discover like, oh, actually your adrenals are completely rocked and so we need to take you to Carla, who's going to really work on your burnout, because sure, they may even identify as wanting to start a business, but Carla says this beautifully.

Alex Mufson: 1:09:01

She's like whatever you build on top of is what will be, and so, even if someone does come and say, alex, I want to hire you and this is the business. If we do spend some time together and the foundation would not hold a safe business, we're going to have you work with other people on the team until you're ready to do that. Some people come that don't have any interest in entrepreneurship but are looking for very thoughtful, integrative services. So everybody on the team is highly specialized many master's degrees, all of that and they're influenced by biohacking and human design and all of these things that often you don't find in such a professional package. So it's a pretty wide variety, but I would say the common thread is very high functioning and almost too badass for their own good.

Rochelle Christiane: 1:10:00

Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I mean, I feel like we need to like do a part two of this, because I would love to get into trauma work and everything I know.

Alex Mufson: 1:10:06

I think we're friends now. I know.

Rochelle Christiane: 1:10:09

I know, and my daughter has a therapy appointment at six. So I'm like, oh my gosh, awesome. But yeah, this has been so fascinating and I just think like, like I said, I'd love to see human design being, you know, combined and woven into something so powerful like this, because there is, I mean, whether you're an entrepreneur or just working a nine to five or or anything like part of my mission and my goal is just helping us remember who we are, because we're so disconnected from our body, from we just believe the narrative of our mind and we're in this like hamster wheel that just never stops and we're miserable and like all these things.

Rochelle Christiane: 1:10:45

And so I just think that you know, whether it's somatic work, whether it's, you know, like the adrenals or trauma work, like it's just it's so important to be doing, so I just I honor what you're doing and I think it's just incredible to I'm so glad we met.

Alex Mufson: 1:10:59

Okay, cool, this is great, you're one of my people.

Alex Mufson: 1:11:02

And no, I agree, I think I think we're in a moment of transition and I think of it as like freeing people, and I think our culture has gotten so removed from the body and so without.

Alex Mufson: 1:11:16

Human design allows a language and allows an approach that doesn't involve appropriating all sorts of different cultures in order to grasp at straws, to find a way to connect with our bodies again, because the bottom line is, I'm many generations away from any sort of human that had connection to their body in the way that passenger consciousness can allow, and so, you know, I can look around and I can try to take from other cultures, but at the end of the day, it's pretty dangerous. You know, you start appropriating things that are not meant for you. Human design is new enough and I feel very confident. It is meant for me and people who feel as detached from their history so that we can start making a new history, so that the people that come after us don't feel so detached and like you just described in their head and not able to drop into who we're supposed to be. So thank you so much for having me.

Rochelle Christiane: 1:12:10

Yeah, of course, thank you. And if you want to let everyone know where they can find you, how they can work with you, of course I'll have everything in the show notes as well. And if you want to let everyone know where they can find you, how they can work with you, of course I'll have everything in the show notes as well.

Alex Mufson: 1:12:17

Awesome, yeah, you can Google Rev Human Design. It's R-E-V because we're here for the revolution. My Instagram is just alexmufson, so hopefully that'll be in the show notes. I would say if you have no idea what we're talking about, please download. It's really important to me that we're not gatekeeping this information, that the only way to get to it is not paid, so you can get a free chart on our website and it does have some like very basic descriptions so that you can get started. So make sure to get that on the Rev site. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me.